Simple Q re: "How much $ do you have behind?" in NL games...

[teddyFBI]

this is just my own curiosity about what the correct ruling is in these 2 situations...hasn't actually come up for me yet, altho i'm sure it has for others:

1) in a deep-stacked NL game, player A asks B how much he has behind, B gives a # he believes to be accurate, but which is off by a substantial amount (assume he just miscounted). A, acting on the assumption that B's oral representation was accurate, announces all in (or makes some play that would have been different had he known b's actual stack size), and is upset when the chips are counted and he finds out how wrong B's representation was.

2) same situation, but A doesn't ask for a count, but rather makes an eyeball estimate, only to then realize that B had hidden (inadvertently, let's assume) a lot of his high-value chips behind his other stacks, so they weren't visible to A. A thought that he had B easily covered -- turns out that B had A covered. B gleefully calls A's all-in with the nuts -- A's pissed b/c B's high-value chips weren't visible.

Rulings?

[TonyLA]

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2) same situation, but A doesn't ask for a count, but rather makes an eyeball estimate, only to then realize that B had hidden (inadvertently, let's assume) a lot of his high-value chips behind his other stacks, so they weren't visible to A. A thought that he had B easily covered -- turns out that B had A covered. B gleefully calls A's all-in with the nuts -- A's pissed b/c B's high-value chips weren't visible.

Rulings?

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#2 is generally the same across casinos - it's up to the players to make sure they know the stack sizes before announcing all-in. The all-in is binding in most cases, and while the player with hidden big chips will be admonished for hiding them (intentionally or not), the player will be "on the hook" for the entire amount - hidden or not. It's why it's always important to ask someone how much they have left before announcing all-in.

- T

[LasVegasMichael]

When considering an all in, I ALWAYS make sure I know the opponants approximate stack size. Usually, I will directly ask if there are any off color chips in the stack, specifically.

I play in a game where the $1 (blue), $25(green), and $100(black), are all dark in color, and can blend in rather easily. All denoms play, so when a guy has a stack of red and what appears to be a stack of blue, I will still ask. At least a couple times they had a black and some green mixed into their blues. Intentional or not, it always pays to ask for this reason.

[GreedIsGood]

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2) same situation, but A doesn't ask for a count, but rather makes an eyeball estimate, only to then realize that B had hidden (inadvertently, let's assume) a lot of his high-value chips behind his other stacks, so they weren't visible to A. A thought that he had B easily covered -- turns out that B had A covered. B gleefully calls A's all-in with the nuts -- A's pissed b/c B's high-value chips weren't visible.

Rulings?

[/ QUOTE ]

#2 is generally the same across casinos - it's up to the players to make sure they know the stack sizes before announcing all-in. The all-in is binding in most cases, and while the player with hidden big chips will be admonished for hiding them (intentionally or not), the player will be "on the hook" for the entire amount - hidden or not. It's why it's always important to ask someone how much they have left before announcing all-in.

- T

[/ QUOTE ]

I have seen the 'hidden' chips ruled as not in play at Lucky Chances. The rule there is that large denomination chips must be on top or in the front of the player's stack. If they are placed such that they can't be seen by the other players and there's an objection when they're discovered, they won't be allowed in play for that hand.

[PokerEveryDay]

#1, (and this ties into #2) a player can say whatever he/she wants (see example below), it's up to the ruling of the table about keeping chips in view or not. This would be the job of the dealer to make sure all high denoms are visible. I never ask my opponent how much, rather I ask can you move your hands out of the way so I can get a clear view of your stack(s). If the chips are not against the rail then there could be more chips hidden behind.

So #2 is simply a lack of enforcing players to keep their stack(s) in full view.

Take for example when it's HU to the river and player 1 makes a bet and player 2 calls. Player 1 was bluffing all the way and calls out his hand before showing. Player 2 realizes he his beat and mucks what is actually the best hand. Even if player 1 shows that he didn't have anything player 2 loses.

Bottom line, don't trust ANYONE!