Another "should I speak up" thread

fyodor · #1 03-28-2007, 01:59 PM

The other day this hand came up. On the river the pot is already large and the guy in the 1 seat thinks he just made the nuts and makes a small value bet. Guy in the 5 seat actually has made the nuts and makes a reasonable raise. Guy in the 10 seat is yet to act but 1 seat gets all excited and moves all-in for a substantial amount but out of turn.

Every time I have seen someone raise out of turn at this casino the dealer immediately informs the player that out of turn action doesn't stand and he can only call when it becomes his turn. This time the dealer says nothing.

The dealer has been on super friendly chatty terms with the guy with the nuts who is a regular. The all-in out of turn guy is new to me and has been pretty quiet.

The 10 seat folds. The 5 seat who has the 1 seat covered says, "I call" and flips over the nuts. The dealer pushes the chips to the 5 seat.

Should I say something about the all-in bet being invalid? I folded preflop btw.

AngusThermopyle · #2 03-28-2007, 02:09 PM

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Every time I have seen someone raise out of turn at this casino the dealer immediately informs the player that out of turn action doesn't stand and he can only call when it becomes his turn. ....

Should I say something about the all-in bet being invalid?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would.
If the house rule is as you stated, the dealer either made a mistake or intentionally let a violation pass. Either way, I would try to protect the integrity of the game and speak up. This will also clear up any misunderstanding about the rule that might cost me money later on.

psandman · #3 03-28-2007, 02:11 PM

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Every time I have seen someone raise out of turn at this casino the dealer immediately informs the player that out of turn action doesn't stand and he can only call when it becomes his turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never seen this rulehich casino uses it? It is a terrible rule.

fyodor · #4 03-28-2007, 02:42 PM

It is a Canadian casino and it is most definitely the rule in this particular casino. If you bet or raise out of turn you can only call when it does become your turn.

Fishwhenican · #5 03-28-2007, 02:59 PM

It doesn't really sound like it would have made any difference if you would have said something or not.

If the guy who acted out of turn was seated next to me and I thought he was new to the game and not sure what he was doing I would have said something to him. Other than that I probably just let things play out. But the correct answer probably would be to say something if this is 100% for sure the rule at this casino.

bav · #6 03-28-2007, 04:18 PM

If a normally strictly enforced rule is being violated, you can speak up. But I wouldn't in this case. Mostly because the rule sucks--it's contrary to common practice. The standard rule is he MUST now raise when it's his turn if the other players to act before him fold or call; almost exactly the opposite of the rule being enforced here. As well, it's clearly what both players want and they're big boys, so who am I to tell them there's some nitty, wrong-headed rule against it?

GoodCallYouWin · #7 03-28-2007, 04:30 PM

If you are going to speak up, you do it immediately when he makes an out of turn bet, and here's how you do it. Hold up your arm to the guy going all in, with your palm in the air (stop sign). Say "Woah down there junior" (especially if he's older than you "you just hold your horses buddy. My man over here" (gesture to the guy who's turn it is) "wants a chance to speak."

Inevitably, your man checks. Then you say "ok now son, you go ahead" and he goes all in.

The key is to be understanding and make it extremely embarassing for the offender, so he never does it again.

GoodCallYouWin · #8 03-28-2007, 04:31 PM

But, as soon as the right guy scoops the pots at the end of a hand, it's over. DO NOT SPEAK OF IT AGAIN. If someone asks you something about it, mumble "I dunno ace of spades" and then change the topic of conversation.

n.s. · #9 03-28-2007, 06:33 PM

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It is a Canadian casino and it is most definitely the rule in this particular casino. If you bet or raise out of turn you can only call when it does become your turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a strange rule. So if you bet or raise out or turn, you are forced to call when the action comes to you, or can you still fold?

fyodor · #10 03-28-2007, 06:40 PM

If the players inbetween have only called or folded the most you can do is call yourself. I'm really not sure if you are allowed to fold instead. Everyone has always called when it's come up and that's been at least a dozen times in tables I've been at. I am also unclear what happens if someone raises before it gets to you. I assume you would be allowed to fold at that point but not sure if you could now raise again yourself.

I'll check next time I'm there. Probably not till next week.