Mr. Inconsistent : KTs UTG

GuyOnTilt · #1 03-21-2007, 03:03 AM

Online 15. Game was 9-handed for a while, but one left and two are sitting out just a couple hands ago leaving us 6-handed for this hand. Opponent is your average tight player you find in midstakes games these days. Let's just pretend he's an average 2p2'er.

I get K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG and raise. One fold and CO 3bets. Folded back to me and I call.

Flop comes: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check, he bets, I raise. He calls.

Turn comes: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, he raises. I call.

River comes: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check, he bets, I fold.

Thoughts on hand as is?

Thoughts if the turn was a 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]?

Thoughts if the turn was a A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], or J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]?

Moneyline · #2 03-21-2007, 04:19 AM

I'm not quite sure what you mean by an "average tight player." To me, this is a player who is a little too loose, a little to passive, but basically okay. I don't think this sort of opponent will make this turn raise without a real hand. I would just fold. That said, if my opponent was a very aggressive TAG, I'd be more inclined to call down as he could make this raise with a flush draw, a hand like TT, or even air if he thinks you are weak.

Just my opinion...

Entity · #3 03-21-2007, 04:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not quite sure what you mean by an "average tight player." To me, this is a player who is a little too loose, a little to passive, but basically okay. I don't think this sort of opponent will make this turn raise without a real hand. I would just fold. That said, if my opponent was a very aggressive TAG, I'd be more inclined to call down as he could make this raise with a flush draw, a hand like TT, or even air if he thinks you are weak.

Just my opinion...

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if he exclusively has strong hands (AK+) you have to call the turn raise on this board.

Rob

Entity · #4 03-21-2007, 04:24 AM

FWIW in 6-handed games when I raise and get 3bet by a player who may or may not be properly adjusting to my range for the situation, I tend to not checkraise this flop all the time. Assuming I had I play the rest of the hand the same when I'm playing well and have the read you have, and I pay off on the river when I'm playing marginally or worse. On a Queen I'm far more likely to pay off a turn raise and a river bet and on an Ace I'm more likely to take a wide range of lines on the turn including c/c c/f, b/f, b/calldown, and b/c+c/f.

Rob

private joker · #5 03-21-2007, 04:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this sort of opponent will make this turn raise without a real hand. I would just fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you notice we have a straight draw?

hoppscot22 · #6 03-21-2007, 05:05 AM

should this be a fold UTG in a 6 handed game?... i dont think i normally do, but does folding pflop have any merit?

vmacosta · #7 03-21-2007, 05:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
should this be a fold UTG in a 6 handed game?... i dont think i normally do, but does folding pflop have any merit?

[/ QUOTE ]
no.
(Sorry there's not much more to say--if you played a bunch of 6-max you'd quickly realize why.)

This hand was pretty well summed up by entity's post.

Godson · #8 03-21-2007, 07:57 AM

WHy are you folding the river if you are calling the turn is what you should be asking yourself.

Edit: I see the straight draw, but shorthanded for 1 bet i dont fold on this river, if he is an 'average tight player', that means he can also be tricky, he doesnt always have to have the best hand on the turn if he is 'tight'. imo.

danzasmack · #9 03-21-2007, 10:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this sort of opponent will make this turn raise without a real hand. I would just fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you notice we have a straight draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. My knee-jerk was to fold turn then i realized we have the gutter.

I fold the river as well.

rafiki · #10 03-21-2007, 10:21 AM

If my math is right, 8ish BB by the time the river comes. So I've asked this a lot, I'll ask it again. Knowing when we check and he bets, pot has 9bb. To get a profitable call, we have to win this a little over 1 time in 9, correct ?

With that in mind, is this fold really correct ?