4/8 Live Flopped Flush

[Scarmiglio]

Hero is in SB, Villain 1 is in BB and is an ATC fish. Villain 2 is a thinking player that still plays too loose, but is capable of folding.

Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the SB. 4 callers, Hero completes, BB checks.

6 to the flop for 6 small bets.
Flop is K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero Bets, Villain 1 calls, MP calls, Villain 2 calls

4 to the turn for 5bb
Turn is the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero Bets, Villain 1 Raises, MP folds, Villain 2 calls 2, Hero calls.

3 to the river for 11bb
River is 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero Checks, Villain 1 Bets, Villain 2 Calls, Hero Raises, Villain 1 Calls, Villain 2 Folds.

Standard or do you 3-bet the turn?

[NickPappagiorgio]

3-bet the turn. Neither of the villains appear to be going anywhere so charge any potential higher flush draws or set 2 pair hands looking to fill up.

[shane88888]

You have to three-bet the turn. You have the best hand, and when Villain 2 coldcalls it's pretty obvious he has A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], or a set. You have to punish him while you can.

If the fish has you beat, so be it. But I think you're good here far too often not to punish. Given that you only called the turn, I like your river c/r. But if a spade rolled off or the board paired, you'd be kicking yourself.

[tyler_cracker]

failing to 3bet the turn is a large mistake. don't be such a pussy!

[Scarmiglio]

Ouch. I only called the turn as I was quite sure I'd get a checkraise in on the river as I'd been playing with Villain 1 for a while and if he raises the turn he's definitely betting the river. I figure if the river is another spade or the board pairs I save some bets. If not I get to checkraise and make the same number of bets as 3-betting the turn. No?

[Man of Means]

(grunch) 3-jack the turn pls...you get 4 bb's total if they're calling down, but it's a better move if they are drawing with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. You also cannot count on them to bet the river for you.

[tyler_cracker]

[ QUOTE ]
Ouch. I only called the turn as I was quite sure I'd get a checkraise in on the river as I'd been playing with Villain 1 for a while and if he raises the turn he's definitely betting the river. I figure if the river is another spade or the board pairs I save some bets. If not I get to checkraise and make the same number of bets as 3-betting the turn. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

Does your villain call your river c/r(!?) with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x? Does he call your turn 3bet with that hand? What about the other guy in the pot?

[Frond]

At first I thought that a turn 3 bet was the obv. play. I'm kind of rethinking that maybe I like the way Hero played this. If Hero 3 bets the turn it's poss that he won't get a c/r in on the river. Not sure. Seems like Villain 1 is going to call you no matter what. Funny that villaoin 2 fodled to just one more bet on the river? I have to think about this one a bit more.

[Mr. Orange]

[ QUOTE ]
failing to 3bet the turn is a large mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Man of Means]

[ QUOTE ]
If Hero 3 bets the turn it's poss that he won't get a c/r in on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, but he gets a bet from the guy who's calling anyway and extra bet(s) on the turn from those who weren't calling the river (busted 4-flush, maybe a gutshot?)

here's your options and likely payouts:
call and c/r river: you get 4 bets from villain1 and 2+ from villain 2. [If you get 3-bet on the river you're probably smoked.]
3-bet turn and bet riv: you get 4+ bets from villain1 and 3+ from villain 2

what's better?