50/100 Deep

[Dakine69]

Live 50/100
Villian 1: 20K Played hundreds of hours together very good tricky tag
Villian 2: 40K Alot of history, plays pretty good most of the time, capable of crazy moves depending on game dynamics. At the time of this hand, he had been playing normal nothing out of line
Me: 40k

Villian 1 limps in ep/mp Villian 2 raises to 400 in hijack button calls, I call with pocket 4's in the bb & villian 1 calls.

Flop: 4 8 10 rainbow
checked around to button who bets 800
I call, villian 1 calls, and villian 2 (pf raiser) raises to 5k total, button folds, I just call, villian 1 calls

I was a little surprised at villian 1's call and at this point I am fairly certain he has 79 or 9J.
Villian 2 can do this with a big pair trying to see where he is at and also with a set of 8's or 10's.

I felt if I raised his 5k bet I would only be called or pushed in with a set, villian 1 would fold any hand except a set and villian 2 would instamuck a big pair.

turn 6 4 8 10 rainbow: pot 17k

I check, villian 1 checks, villian 2 takes extra time, wants to bet then checks
I am very confident villian 1 would bet turn if he hit his 79, I now believe he has 9J.
I was planning to fold if villian 2 bet cause I think he would only bet a set at this point.

River 5 6 4 8 10 pot 17k
Hero???

I played the hand different and was thrown off by villian 1's call of the 5k flop bet. Any thoughts on this line or other lines? Lead turn? If lead turn, fold if villian 2 pushes?

Another bit of information was the fact that villian 2 checked the flop initially with a very, very tight player on the button who most likely would check.

[Ansky]

check, and probably fold if villain 1 bets.

[Lefort]

I understand where you're coming from with the slowplaying but I just don't like it. I donk the flop, personally.

As played I think you have to c/f. Don't forget 76s as a good possibility to be out there.

[LAGOOFL247]

Pre-flop, what is villan 2's raising range with an utg caller?

Flop; I like the check-call, but once you get the raise to 5k, it seems like decision time. I say re-pop to 15k with the intention of re-evaluating a push.

I do this to avoid the turn decision. If you lead the turn (10k?) are you going to fold to a push (25k raise) with bottom set in a pot worth 63k? As played I like the check.

River; If villan 1 bets, you have your read. If villan 2 bets, make a read. If you put him on 8-8 and he bets, c/r all-in?

[adanthar]

I want to just lead this river and hope v2 folds eights, because hoping for some kind of weird v1 bluffs/v2 picks it off/you bluff CR shove and hope both your reads are 100% on combo is just a little bit much.

If v2 makes a good call with an overset or manages to pull off the nastiest river bluff raise ever, fine, he can have it. Your line looks just as drawy/got there-y as either of theirs.

[Robb]

I don't like how this hand played out. Seems like a case where:

1. anything you do after villain 2 cr's is going to scream strength. I mean villain2 isn't expecting you to call his cr with AT and then (you) bluff any turn expecting villain2 to lay down an overpair, right? So given you are both deep he can put you on a set or 76/79/J9 only correct? If this range isn't correct please note what you think villain2 would put you on after calling his flop cr. Assuming the above hand range is correct....

2. if your set is good on the flop, you only get action on the turn or river when you are beat..via a suckout. This assumes your opponent wouldn't expect you....with a straight draw, to lead the turn after missing.

Therefore, I think reraising his flop cr to 12-15k is best. And yes, you usually take the hand down right there but you were not going to get any action post flop anyway (unless you were beat). You say you have a long history with villain2...that history and any vibes/tells should tell you whether to fold or call if he pushes over your flop cr. As far as villain1, his play has me baffled based on your description of him as a good tag: he seems to have botched his hand pretty well unless he has 88 and is laying the hammer down on the turn.

Given how you played the flop, I would lead turn and fold to villain2 push.

Regarding how villain2 checked the flop with a tight button unlikely to bet - dunno. Sometimes I will do that in the same scenario with a hand like JJ/QQ knowing that my best chance to win the hand is to get a raise in somewhere. So I am checking the flop hoping for the small chance button bets or that the turn is safe and someone lead bets. This also allows me to usually get away from the hand if someone reraises my flop cr.

[lbiars]

If your image is solid and not too tricky, I lead the river for value. I don't think you're beat here. V2 is on a good ten, overpair or J9/QJ and has to take your flop call seriously, but might pay off if you bet 10k or so. Him raising this river without the str8 would be semi-suicidal. If your read is correct and V1 doesn't have 79, the only hand you're worried about is 76s. If he's solid, he would've repopped on the flop with a bigger set, or at the very least bet the turn.

Like I said, I think you're good here and should consider a value bet, but I probably would've led out on the turn if I were you.

Lee

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]



I felt if I raised his 5k bet I would only be called or pushed in with a set, villian 1 would fold any hand except a set and villian 2 would instamuck a big pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

right, but why didnt you raise buttons initial bet?

[BIGFISH2007]

with the flop action you are almost certainly behind here. A bet here would be a bluff. Bet here if you think a bluff works. Otherwise check and fold.

[luckyjimm]

Results?