AA in the BB

[Burnsabre]

I just recently started playing more live games, not used to playing full ring and such loose tables.

Anways: 15/30 9 handed.
Only player with a clue at the table is to my right.

6 limpers, SB completes, I raise AA in BB. Flop comes KJx. I bet, 5 calls. ugh.
turn pairs the J. I dutifully bet, 3 calls and SB ch/r the field for 2. Easy fold?

[benwood]

If the 3 limpers behind you all call the raise,you will be getting 20 to 1 on trying to catch an A on the river.You're not quite getting the odds,but I would fish in anyway because I play bad.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

PREFLOP: Standard

FLOP: Your flop bet is a mistake, but I think only a very small percentage of poker players truly understand why it's a mistake. I just wanted to point that out cuz I think most 2+2ers would bet in this spot even though betting is actually the incorrect play in this situation.

TURN: Yes the turn is an easy fold against 95% of live 15-30 opponents unless you have the odds to outdraw trip jacks.

[benwood]

I think that you're right about the flop.With 16 bets in the pot,you should be thinking in terms of protection.A flop bet will tend to lock players in,rather than force them out.If you check & hopefully get a bet from the back-end,you can make a shut-out type raise & narrow this field.

[blindside]

with the board paired i might call. it really depends on how much of a calling station the folks behind you are. if they'll call two cold with a straight if you make your hand on the river then i would call and if they'll call two cold after someone else calls two cold even better!

they would also have to come along as well which is no guarantee either. but if they don't have a clue, go ahead and call.

[poker1O1]

[ QUOTE ]
FLOP: Your flop bet is a mistake, but I think only a very small percentage of poker players truly understand why it's a mistake. I just wanted to point that out cuz I think most 2+2ers would bet in this spot even though betting is actually the incorrect play in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
you're advocating a c/r to narrow the field right?

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FLOP: Your flop bet is a mistake, but I think only a very small percentage of poker players truly understand why it's a mistake. I just wanted to point that out cuz I think most 2+2ers would bet in this spot even though betting is actually the incorrect play in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
you're advocating a c/r to narrow the field right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Were OOP to 6 players in a 16sb pot. This means two things.

1) A flop bet will not protect our hand.

2) Someone out of those 6 players is very likely to bet.

Given these two realities betting is a clear strategic error. I am not necessarily advocating a check/raise to narrow the field however. I am advocating a check with the intention of seeing the action and making the best play possible from there.

Sometimes I will be check/raising to narrow the field. Sometimes I will be check/raising for value becuz there may not be a way to protect my hand. Sometimes I may check/call the flop, and check/raise the turn depending on the action and my reads. Sometimes I may check/call the flop with the intention of donk/calling the turn or donk/3betting the turn depending on the action and whom im up against. However I would say that most of the time I am check/raising this flop.

My main point here is that checking the flop in this spot with this type of hand is clearly better than betting in my mind. Yet whats interesting to me is every time I watch a good player play this spot or read about a good player playing this spot, they invariably continue bet and it always makes me cringe. For many good players continue betting in spots like this with this type of hand is their last fundamental leak.

[mongidig]

This is one of those hands where there is simply no good way to protect your hand given the size of the pot and your relative postition. Therefore, I do the next best thing and figure out how I can get the most money in the pot assuming I still have the best hand.

I believe that betting out and going for the check-raise are viable options. If I have a tight image and my opponents are putting me on a premium hand after raising from the BB then betting out may actually still get poeple to fold even though they are getting great odds. After all, I must have a monster if I raised from BB and now bet into 7 other players. I may even get raised by an early position player. Probably the best case scenario would be that I bet get called by several players and raised by an aggressive LP player, giving me a chance to reraise and knock out players while still collecting some dead money.

Check-raising would work best if aggressive players are on your right and it goes bet, raise, and now you can reraise(probably the best of all situations).

As far as your decision on the turn, I would call if I knew most or all of the remaining players would stay in. If you spike your ace on the river you should get payed off well by trips, smaller full boat, straights etc.

[Burnsabre]

Yeah, I've been playing shorthanded too long, out of position with this many folks in just never comes up.

As far as calling the turn... even getting 20-1, I have RIO cus I know I'd call the river UI...

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
PREFLOP: Standard

FLOP: Your flop bet is a mistake, but I think only a very small percentage of poker players truly understand why it's a mistake. I just wanted to point that out cuz I think most 2+2ers would bet in this spot even though betting is actually the incorrect play in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've made some great posts lately.

I definitely agree. Even in fewer handed pots I will sometimes check here just to teach people that when I check the flop after being the PFR doesn't mean I give up/missed. In a pot with this many players this is a clear check and see what happens. We might raise the flop, we might want to wait for the turn.