Home MTT Structure

[mxp2004]

I'd appreciate some comments on the following structure for a home game MTT. There will be 30 players and 30 minute levels. Top 5 spots will pay. The starting stacks will be 10,000, and so there will be 300,000 chips in play. Here are the proposed levels:

1. 25 50
2. 50 100
3. 100 200
4. 100 200 + 25
5. 200 400 + 50
6. 300 600 + 75
7. 400 800 + 100
8. 500 1000 + 200
9. 600 1200 + 300
10. 800 1600 + 300
11. 1000 2000 + 500
12. 1500 3000 + 500
13. 2000 4000 + 1000
14. 2500 5000 + 1000

Do these seem fair? I'm mostly worried about making sure that the final table players have a decent M to work with.

For example, if we don't hit the final 10 players until Level 11 (1000 2000 + 500), the average chip stack will be 30,000, and the average M will be 3.75. That seems unfair to me.

On the other hand, if I can count on being down to the final 10 players by Level 8 (500 1000 + 200), then with average chip stacks of 30,000, the average M will be 8.6, which seems a little fairer.

The bottom line is that I don't want the final table to be a situation where everyone has only one decision: all in or fold.

Thanks for any comments.

[Lottery Larry]

You left out an important component- how much time overall do you have for this tourney?

[mxp2004]

We're should have lots of time. We're looking to start around 11 a.m. or noon on a weekend day and playing until we finish. If we get all the way to Level 14, that should still end around 8 - 9 p.m., after including a few breaks.

[StepBangin]

Take out the antes. It will cause more problems/confusion.

Also, wont this tournament be done in like 4 to 5 hours max? I may be wrong since I dont really know how to tell, but it seems like it wont make it to level 14.

How much is the buy-in?

If it is a small buy-in people wont want to play as long. I would be upset to play a $10 tournament and finish 8 hours later in 3rd place, only to get $50 or $60


Edit: I guess it may be longer than 4 to 5 hours. We always play short handed, which makes for some fatser tournaments, and I play with n00bs that donk off easily.

[mxp2004]

The buyin will be $100, for a $3,000 prize pool. I think most of the field will know how to play. My usual poker night draws 10 guys who have been playing hold'em together for 3 years. A couple of these guys know others from their work who run similar games. Our goal is to hit 30 players total and to run a tournament that allows for some decent play.

I know that when I run my poker nights, we'll play a 1 table tournament with 8 - 10 players. With 3,000 chips to start, 20 minutes levels, and blinds doubling with each level, the whole game takes 2 - 3 hours. So I'm trying to judge from there.

Alternatively, I played in a MTT at the Borgata this weekend. With the add-on available, each player got 10,000 chips. The structure was roughly the same as above, but with 20 minute levels. With 140 players, we hit the final table after about 5 hours. However, all the Ms were pretty low for the final table.

By the time we got down to 7 players, even the chip leader had an M of 3, and this was with 1.4 million chips in play. It had become such a crapshoot that we all agreed just to split the prize money 7 ways. That is the result I'm trying to avoid.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
We're should have lots of time. We're looking to start around 11 a.m. or noon on a weekend day and playing until we finish. If we get all the way to Level 14, that should still end around 8 - 9 p.m., after including a few breaks.

[/ QUOTE ]

IF you get there? you have a strong possibility of going beyond it, depending on how aggressive the players are. Heads up, they average 30BB each at the 25000/5000 level.

I'll comment to your original post later.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, wont this tournament be done in like 4 to 5 hours max? I may be wrong since I dont really know how to tell, but it seems like it wont make it to level 14.

Edit: I guess it may be longer than 4 to 5 hours. We always play short handed, which makes for some fatser tournaments, and I play with n00bs that donk off easily.

[/ QUOTE ]


When the BB is 10% of the chips, but usually when the BB is 3-5% of the total chips in play, is where the tourney will end typically. I don't see that as possible with the size of the field and the 16% payout structure.

[mxp2004]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We're should have lots of time. We're looking to start around 11 a.m. or noon on a weekend day and playing until we finish. If we get all the way to Level 14, that should still end around 8 - 9 p.m., after including a few breaks.

[/ QUOTE ]

IF you get there? you have a strong possibility of going beyond it, depending on how aggressive the players are. Heads up, they average 30BB each at the 25000/5000 level.

I'll comment to your original post later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your help, but I am not sure that I am following you. Are you saying that there are too many chips in play?

As I mentioned in another post, a MTT at the Borgata this past weekend started with 14 tables and over 1.4 million chips in play. With roughly the same structure (except with 20 minute levels), we hit the final table around the 5 hour mark, and no one who got there had a deep stack.

It sounds like you think I may have the opposite problem and that, despite starting with only 3 tables and 30 players, there will be too many chips relative to the blinds at the final table to make the end game conclude in a reasonable time frame.

If that is the case, what adjustments do you think make sense? Lower the starting stacks to 7500? Use a more aggressive structure?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[PantsOnFire]

I don't think you can predict an average M for the final table. The tightness of the players will dictate that.

The only thing I can think of, and this is a shot in the dark, it to predict where you figure the bubble will be burst and then flatten out the blinds after that for a while when the players will loosen up a bit.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your help, but I am not sure that I am following you. Are you saying that there are too many chips in play?

As I mentioned in another post, a MTT at the Borgata this past weekend started with 14 tables and over 1.4 million chips in play. With roughly the same structure (except with 20 minute levels), we hit the final table around the 5 hour mark, and no one who got there had a deep stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it THIS Borg structure? ?

LEVEL ANTE BLINDS

1st - $25 - $50

2nd - $50 - $100

3rd - $100 - $200

4th $25 $100 - $200

5th $50 $200 - $400

6th $75 $300 - $600

7th $100 $400 - $800

8th $200 $600 - $1,200

9th $300 $800 - $1,600

10th $300 $1,000 - $2,000

11th $500 $1,500 - $3,000

12th $500 $2,000 - $4,000

13th $1,000 $3,000 - $6,000

14th $1,000 $4,000 - $8,000

15th $2,000 $6,000 - $12,000

16th $3,000 $8,000 - $16,000

17th $3,000 $10,000 - $20,000

18th $5,000 $15,000 - $30,000

In 3 hours, the blinds are 15% of the starting stacks. In yours, they will only be 6%

After 5 hours duration, WITH a pro dealer (so more hands are played per round than you would get at home), the Borg tourney reached the final table with this blind level

16th $T3000a $T8000/$T16000

9-10 players dividing 1.4M in chips is only 155K as the average stack, or 8BB (not including the other $24K in antes each round). Yes, I can see where most players weren't too comfortably stacked.

How many places paid in that Borg tourney? More than 9, I assume?

Your 10th round (4:40 duration, excluding breaks)
10. 800 1600 + 300

The Borg's is 25% higher blinds (3 hours duration)
10th $300 $1,000 - $2,000

You're going to get in 15-20 hands per round. When the final table comes, and the money gets close, players will tighten up somewhat.

In your favor is that they will have played for 7 hours by round 14, so they might be impatient. But I would definately have a few more rounds of blinds ready, in case you need them.