Faith

txag007 · #1 02-20-2007, 03:49 PM

"You cannot be a man of faith unless you know how to doubt. Faith is not blind conformity to an idea. It is a decision, a judgement that is fully and deliberately taken in light of a truth that cannot be proven. It is not merely the acceptance of a decision that has been made by somebody else and presented to you as the truth."
-- Thomas Merton

SitNHit · #2 02-20-2007, 04:19 PM

Does faith have feeling as love has feeling?

kurto · #3 02-20-2007, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Faith is not blind conformity to an idea."

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on all I've seen of most fundamentalists... most evidence contradicts this statement. And since Faith ignores evidence that contradicts it... is is BLIND conformity.

[ QUOTE ]
It is a decision, a judgement that is fully and deliberately taken in light of a truth that cannot be proven. It is not merely the acceptance of a decision that has been made by somebody else and presented to you as the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

How so? Most evidence I've seen says this guy is wrong.

Dane S · #4 02-20-2007, 04:56 PM

I think there are degrees of faith... this guy is describing the most conscious degrees, faith as a last resort after every avenue has been explored and no provable truth has been discovered. This is good faith imo, perfectly rational and justified, a choice that is made once logical reasoning has exhausted itself. However, bad faith also exists and seems to actually be much much more prevalent. Bad faith IS blind conformity to an idea and I think it fills an emotional hole, not a logical one. So I don't agree with the generalist tone of his statement.

dknightx · #5 02-20-2007, 05:13 PM

calm down people, if it helps, just change the instances of "faith" to "good faith".

revots33 · #6 02-20-2007, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It is not merely the acceptance of a decision that has been made by somebody else and presented to you as the truth."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd estimate this is false for about 99% of religious believers. Are you arguing most people find their religious faith on their own through inquiry? Because I vaguely remember some nuns, some priests, some water on my head, and some scary s**t about hell when I was a child.

dknightx · #7 02-20-2007, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is not merely the acceptance of a decision that has been made by somebody else and presented to you as the truth."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd estimate this is false for about 99% of religious believers. Are you arguing most people find their religious faith on their own through inquiry? Because I vaguely remember some nuns, some priests, some water on my head, and some scary s**t about hell when I was a child.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, but the point of the quote is that it SHOULD be. and its not "true" faith unless it has.

Dane S · #8 02-20-2007, 07:13 PM

I don't consider his usage to be the working definition of faith so I think that would require some explanation. I think it's perfectly possible to have faith that 2+2=5 if you want to and stay within the word's accepted definition... thus a distinction between good and bad faith is required imo.

Prodigy54321 · #9 02-20-2007, 08:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is not merely the acceptance of a decision that has been made by somebody else and presented to you as the truth."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd estimate this is false for about 99% of religious believers. Are you arguing most people find their religious faith on their own through inquiry? Because I vaguely remember some nuns, some priests, some water on my head, and some scary s**t about hell when I was a child.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, but the point of the quote is that it SHOULD be. and its not "true" faith unless it has.

[/ QUOTE ]

no one is listening to you dknightx.. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]..which is a shame because I'm sure you are correct.

for the record, I find even this definition of faith as irresponsible.

carlo · #10 02-20-2007, 09:47 PM

Trying to encapsulate faith according to Aquinas he states that Faith is that which leads one to the Good which is found through the True. In this the Intellect through Thinking finds the True and is led to God.

Accordingly, one does not and cannot have "belief or faith" in a falsehood nor does one state that one "wants something" and then has "faith" that this something will. happen.

The road to the "Good " and the "True" is an act of the Intellect which is carried through "Faith". In this respect "Faith" is an act of Knowledge.

The fact that the "man on the street" has "faith" that a desired event will come about only shows that all of us are still learning in order to reach the "Good" and the "True". Bumps on the road ,if you will, to that in which All Men seek on the road to the "Good".

I'd say that Thomas Merton has a good grasp of its meaning.