Yet Another "Axiom" Question

David Sklansky · #1 01-10-2007, 01:52 AM

And again what I mean by that is a question that will shed light on how you approach many questions. And a question that can't really be debated logically.

Suppose there was some scientific procedure that could be implemented that would make everyone on Earth far happier, richer, fulfilled, pleasant, smart, and whatever other adjectives you think are important. There is only one downside.

500 years from now all humans will become sterile. Nor can they be cloned. Humanity ends about 100 years later. Should the procedure be done? If yes, how much smaller than 500 would you accept? If no, how much greater than 500 would be OK? Also if you answered no only because you think God would be angry, what would your answer be if he assured you he wouldn't be?

mikechops · #2 01-10-2007, 02:01 AM

I find the idea of humanity coming to an end terrifying. The idea that a procedure could make me happy and fullfilled despite causing our extinction, is almost as bad.

chezlaw · #3 01-10-2007, 02:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
And again what I mean by that is a question that will shed light on how you approach many questions. And a question that can't really be debated logically.

Suppose there was some scientific procedure that could be implemented that would make everyone on Earth far happier, richer, fulfilled, pleasant, smart, and whatever other adjectives you think are important. There is only one downside.

500 years from now all humans will become sterile. Nor can they be cloned. Humanity ends about 100 years later. Should the procedure be done? If yes, how much smaller than 500 would you accept? If no, how much greater than 500 would be OK? Also if you answered no only because you think God would be angry, what would your answer be if he assured you he wouldn't be?

[/ QUOTE ]
if its what everyone wants then sure go for it. If this sterility is being imposed on people then no. The number of years makes no difference to me.

chez

George Rice · #4 01-10-2007, 02:33 AM

I realized many years ago that it doesn't matter what anybody does, because in some point in time we, everything we know, and all records of everything we know will just become stardust.

Yet, I can't explain why I live my life like it matters. Even though I've observed that people don't really care in the final analysis about anything but themselves. Actually, I can't say in the final analysis, as I haven't come to that part of my life yet. But life goes on, or I should say the universe goes on, and we all just adapt to our surroundings. When it comes right down to it, does anybody really care about the axe murderer, holocaust, or if the woman next door was raped? And I mean beyond how it will effect them personally?

There's something inside us, instinct perhaps, that makes us care about our families, especially our offspring. But I suspect that feeling or concern wears off as time goes on, and as each generation becomes reality. A parent may care about their child, but as much when the child is 40 as when it was 4? As much for a grandchild as their child? How about a great grandchild, or a great great grandchild? Perhaps contemplating one's demise effects caring about other people to a point. I don’t have any offspring myself, but I suspect, and have observed, that the farther you get from the person in question, the less they will care.

So, speaking on behalf of the human race, 200 years will be more than enough for most people not to care about the future and to take the instant gratification now. Many will rationalize it by saying that we'll come up with a solution in the future so that the consequence doesn't happen, or that those who point out the consequence are just being alarmists (global warming anyone?). And that's even if there is no question about it in most minds.

So to answer your question, should the procedure be done and how many years will the human race need to continue to make it worth it? I don't know, I don't want to put myself in the position of having to make that decision, stardust or not.

gumpzilla · #5 01-10-2007, 02:42 AM

I have a pretty strong negative reaction to this, though as you said I'm not sure it's particularly logical. I think if you picked a timescale such that, somehow or another, I could make a reasonable estimate that humanity would be less than 5% (why 5%? I dunno. Had to pick something.) likely to survive that long, then I would go for it.

David Sklansky · #6 01-10-2007, 02:52 AM

"if its what everyone wants then sure go for it. If this sterility is being imposed on people then no. The number of years makes no difference to me."

chez

The sterility IS being imposed. On people who do not yet exist. Even if everyone wants the procedure now, there is no doubt many will wish it hadn't been done 470 years from now.

chezlaw · #7 01-10-2007, 03:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"if its what everyone wants then sure go for it. If this sterility is being imposed on people then no. The number of years makes no difference to me."

chez

The sterility IS being imposed. On people who do not yet exist. Even if everyone wants the procedure now, there is no doubt many will wish it hadn't been done 470 years from now.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay see the point now. Everyone who currently exists would have to want to be sterile and it would have to be reasonable to believe that existing children would also wish to have had that decision made for them which seems unlikely.

but its not because of any importance atached to the survival of the species. If the sterily occured naturally and everyone was happy with it for long enough to mean there were no children then I see no issue with everyone agreeing not to bother with a cure.

chez

psy · #8 01-10-2007, 03:06 AM

500 years is too short compared to the amount of time human civilization has already existed.

2000 years is acceptable - that gives humanity a good length of time to enjoy this new found happiness. A good deal for many future generations I'd say.

David Sklansky · #9 01-10-2007, 03:13 AM

Chez I am starting to worry about you. Is my English that bad? The sterility kicks in twenty generations from now.

Alex/Mugaaz · #10 01-10-2007, 03:18 AM

I'd have to say no. It seems so ingrained into all of our being that we need to ensure our continued survival and produce offspring that short of something supernatural I wouldn't be willing to reconsider.

If we got an extremely long lifespan I might reconsider.
If it was reasonable to assume we would have a shot at continuing to exist in some other way (medical breakthrough, ai breakthrough, etc) then I might reconsider as well.