Ideas about betting the river

[45suited]

This is a question that I've been thinking about for some time... Say you play at a typical loose passive live game (anywhere from 2/4 to 4/8) like I do. Of course, I regularly crush the calling monkeys by relentlessly value betting. But here's my question:

I play against the same group of regulars (I always know at least 4-5 players at the table, sometimes I know every opponent). The 2+2 books give extensive treatment to when you should bet the river. What percentage of the time you should bet when your hand is good when called and so forth.

But I have found that I bet the river much more than they would seemingly advise, for several reasons:

1) The obvious: Your hand is good much more often than you could seemingly hope for when facing the typical low limit calling monkey. The number of opponents who will call down (even river bets) with ace high (or worse!) is simply astounding.

But now here is my other thinking...

2) For metagame reasons, I don't want these people seeing me check the river with mediocre (but still very winnable) holdings, sending the message that a bet represents either a very strong or a very weak hand. I have found that by betting even if my hand is not necessarily favored if called, my bluffing success has gone up. Also, they know that if they get in a hand with me, they have a far lower chance of getting a free river check down with me than with someone else.

3) This is more rare, but on occasion if it is a mental coin toss between betting and checking the river, I have sometimes bet because I do not want to show the hand down. This reason is only if it is a close decision of course, but I am curious if anyone else has thought about these ideas.

[James.]

in position, OOP, or both?

the gametype to which you are referring to is a valuebettor's paradise. what it boils down to is the range of hands that will call a bet. alot of 2+2 books(except for small stakes hold em)are aimed at 30/60 or midlimit games that were typical for the era inwhich they were written. this might assume a certain level of competence and/or a tighter calling range on the river, which is going to be more narrow than your opponents' ranges.

the game that you are describing has your opponents calling with such a wide range of hands, that even in multiway situations based on how the action has unfolded and your reads on your opponents' tendencies, etc. will lead to your being able to bet middle pair or even just a pair for value in alot of situations. you are simply referring to adjusting to your game, but that is a good thing. it is something that is crucial to longterm success. equally crucial is identifying the opponents that pay off with higher standards and appropriately adjusting against them, as well.