Blacks Convicted of Hate Crime

[Exsubmariner]

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-- One of three white women who were attacked Halloween night by a group of young blacks...

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Eight girls and one boy were convicted Friday of assaulting the women. The judge also found true hate-crime enhancements against eight of the defendants. .



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This story is from CA. I heard it on the national news. My first reaction is exhilleration that justice is blind and societal thinking is catching up to what I have been saying for years, that is that racism goes all ways. Then, my cynical side thinks that the lawyers will push and be successful in an appeal based on the premise that the judge was a racist.

Perhaps we will even see Farakhan, Jackson, and Sharpton come out to defend these poor oppressed children and correct this horrible injustice...[/cynicism]

Curious about the reaction of this board...

edit: oops, forgot the link

[bdk3clash]

Also "discussed" in this thread (near the end.)

[Mickey Brausch]

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Curious about the reaction of this board.

[/ QUOTE ]Sentencing was passed for most of the defendants and the victims have immediately expressed their disagreement with what they perceived as leniency from the court. (link) On the other hand, "most involved in juvenile law agree the disposition [should] be geared more toward rehabilitation than punishment." (Disposition is the term for sentencing in juvenile court.)

I'm against the existence of "hate crime", as such, in the Law, because criminalizing "hate" starts us on a very, very slippery road towards criminalizing thinking. And I am dead set against criminalizing thinking, e.g. putting people in prison for disputing the Holocaust.

Of course, the victims in the Halloween beatings case are right IMO to feel let down by justice. Rehabilitation might be the main objective in juvenile cases, but punishment & deterrence should be an objective as well. Probation, community service, anger management, racial tolerance lessons -- all these are well and good, but the perpetrators shoud have been sentenced to spend a significant amount of time behind bars as well.

As things stand, the perpetrators can expect to be lionized by some of their peers for what they did, now that they will be out and about. They should have been, instead, hit with some punishment severe enough to counter that. For their own sake, as well as society's.

Mickey Brausch

[chicagoY]

Thank the Lord! Finally.

[chicagoY]

I hate the hate crime legislation too but am glad to see that it has been evenly applied. Thanks for posting this one ex.

[HeavilyArmed]

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And I am dead set against criminalizing thinking, e.g. putting people in prison for disputing the Holocaust.


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You'll need to avoid a large section of 'enlightened' Europe. And don't say anything questionable about gays either.

[hyde]

EX,
"Then, my cynical side thinks that the lawyers will push and be successful in an appeal based on the premise that the judge was a racist.

Perhaps we will even see Farakhan, Jackson, and Sharpton come out to defend these poor oppressed children and correct this horrible injustice...[/cynicism]"

cyn·i·cal –adjective
1. distrusting or disparaging the motives of others.
2. showing contempt for accepted standards of honesty or morality by one's actions, esp. by actions that exploit the scruples of others.
3. bitterly or sneeringly distrustful, contemptuous, or pessimistic.

I share a cynical side as well. Mine may be focused in a different direction, but just as strong. Your suggestion of Farakan, Jackson and Sharpton coming out..... goes beyond cynicism. That's just wishful inflammatory thinking.
I have spent enough first hand time with the juvenile justice system to know that no newspaper report gives the full story and that the judge in most cases makes a relatively good decision based on more facts than the newspaper can report. Unlike the plaintiffs and defendants and paper selling news reporters articles, most judges can distinguish between justice and revenge.



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Curious about the reaction of this board.

[/ QUOTE ]Sentencing was passed for most of the defendants and the victims have immediately expressed their disagreement with what they perceived as leniency from the court. (link) On the other hand, "most involved in juvenile law agree the disposition [should] be geared more toward rehabilitation than punishment." (Disposition is the term for sentencing in juvenile court.)

I'm against the existence of "hate crime", as such, in the Law, because criminalizing "hate" starts us on a very, very slippery road towards criminalizing thinking. And I am dead set against criminalizing thinking, e.g. putting people in prison for disputing the Holocaust.

Of course, the victims in the Halloween beatings case are right IMO to feel let down by justice. Rehabilitation might be the main objective in juvenile cases, but punishment & deterrence should be an objective as well. Probation, community service, anger management, racial tolerance lessons -- all these are well and good, but the perpetrators shoud have been sentenced to spend a significant amount of time behind bars as well.

As things stand, the perpetrators can expect to be lionized by some of their peers for what they did, now that they will be out and about. They should have been, instead, hit with some punishment severe enough to counter that. For their own sake, as well as society's.

Mickey Brausch

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I think the existence of 'hate' crime makes it easier to keep violent irrational criminals off the streets. If you punch a guy for cutting you off in traffic, you are a problem. You need a time out. If you punch a guy because he is (color/gender/whatever), you are a bigger problem. You need a longer time out.
As to the slippery road to criminalizing thinking, If we get to a level of technology that can read minds....yikes! I'm damn glad I'll be pushing up daisies by then, I think some weird stuff....I don't think hate crimes are a step down that road. I doubt that road exists. I hope.

I think in this case the judge took a path of education with juveniles. Juvenile court is the last chance for education. Will it work? maybe, maybe not. Put them behind bars for a significant amount of time? Will that work. Maybe, probably not. You can't keep them behind bars forever, the deterrent aspect is not effective.

hyde

[troymclur]

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If you punch a guy because he is (color/gender/whatever), you are a bigger problem. You need a longer time out.

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A crime is a crime. Govermentally mandated thought regulation is as ridiculous as it is appalling. A question: If i should get a more severe sentece for angry thoughts behind an attack, should i get a lighter sentece if i commiserate over Jerry's kids when i kick the [censored] out of uncle ben?

[Smasharoo]

Govermentally mandated thought regulation is as ridiculous as it is appalling.

It exists for every crime already. There's a reason manslaughter and murder aren't the same crime, the only difference is the thought process.

[AngusThermopyle]

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Govermentally mandated thought regulation is as ridiculous as it is appalling.

It exists for every crime already. There's a reason manslaughter and murder aren't the same crime, the only difference is the thought process.

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Not really.
"He wanted to kill" vs "He wanted to hurt, but killed"
is different from
"He wanted to hurt" vs "He wanted to hurt because the person was XYZ"
One is intent. The other is motivation.