Playing KK for Set Value!!!

[jk3a]

Just sat, villian is unknown.

Full Tilt Poker
$1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
UTG: $75.50
MP: $213.50
CO: $97.25
BTN: $552
Hero (SB): $200
BB: $240.75

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($3, 6 players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $7</font>, CO folds, BTN folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $25</font>, BB folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $43</font>, Hero calls $18

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($88, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">MP bets all in for $170.50</font>,

[SABR42]

I push pre-flop.

Failing that, I call flop.

[Isura]

I shove PF or call flop against unknown.

[MasterLJ]

Why would you shove flop if you were villain if you really had aces? Wouldn't you go for value?

I don't mind the call pre-flop, but I'm calling this every time on the flop.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

Why would you shove flop if you were villain if you really had aces? Wouldn't you go for value?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this logic. Often overbets are TP or overpairs. So he can definitely have AA here, but he'll have other overpairs QQ-88 or worse often as well.

[MasterLJ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Why would you shove flop if you were villain if you really had aces? Wouldn't you go for value?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this logic. Often overbets are TP or overpairs. So he can definitely have AA here, but he'll have other overpairs QQ-88 or worse often as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we agree on one thing. This can be AA,99-KK,AK and even AQ. This is AA much less than it is a hand you beat.

[jk3a]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Why would you shove flop if you were villain if you really had aces? Wouldn't you go for value?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this logic. Often overbets are TP or overpairs. So he can definitely have AA here, but he'll have other overpairs QQ-88 or worse often as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

What range do you think an unknown min 4bets PF that he value shoves the flop with?

[Isura]

Every good hand (pairs/AK) that 4-bet PF.

[Al_Money]

Calling preflop is ok, snap call the flop.

[jk3a]

[ QUOTE ]
Every good hand (pairs/AK) that 4-bet PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that's very well documented.