A situation I'm not sure how to handle...

[HoneyBadger]

Suppose you pick up AKo UTG+2, all fold, you raise, MP3 calls cold, others fold.

Flop comes: 8c 3c 9d

You bet (?) and he raises. Now what? I assume a call?

Turn: 3s

Now what? You suspect he might very well be freecard raising his flush or straight draw, or possibly a smallish pair. When you check, since he still has the initiative, he will likely bet and you can't really call, can you? If you bet he won't fold, he might raise if he's tricky, or just call. Then what on the river if it's another blank? you suspect he might have missed the flush, but can't be sure. b/f?

I hate this situation... what are reasonable lines here?

[Haupt_234]

Ahhh, the pain of being OOP.

I definitely think you have to call his flop raise. You are getting decent odds at this point and may (?) have a BDFD. Calling (rather than folding) is also important so that you don't show him that your raises PF don't mean much and allow him to think he can run over you on a dry flop.

Without a read, you really can't call the turn. You don't know if villain has a draw, a low PP, a slowplayed higher PP, or even something like A8s/A9s.

Haupt_234

[threeducks]

I am not sure how to do this all the time. But, yesterday I had AK and I raised UTG+2 and was called by MP1. Blanks hit and I bet, he just called. Turn blank and I bet and he just called. River check, check and I won - he had ATs

On your hand you are raised. I would call the flop raise and check/fold the turn if UI. If A or K hit the turn I would bet it and go from there.

I am not a great player so my advice is how I play. But, I agree that you should not fold to the flop raise.

The problem is compounded if you check the Turn and he checks behind. Then the River becomes difficult to play. You would like a free showdown but if you check OOP he might bet as a bluff.

I would tend to bet the river if he checked the turn and fold to a raise - duh.

Recent cardplayer has a series on betting the Turn by Barry T. There might be some tips there when you have called his raise and missed the Turn.

Good question since it happens a lot with AK. I have heard a lot of players mumble that they no longer raise with AK.

[Grease]

I've been thinking about this since its been posted, but I've been off and on the computer in lab.

You can't fold the flop. The odds are too good, and if you fold there, people will start taking shots at you when they think you have AK and missed.

That said, you're getting roughtly 6:1 (just under) on the turn, and you have 6ish outs to improve if you're behind. 6/47=about 8, which means you're a 7:1 dog (please correct my math, I'm bleary eyed ATM and a moron all the time.)

That said, I think you can peel the turn if he bets, assuming he's not a rock or a total LP. If he's either of those, then I def chuck it in, but if he's more on the aggressive side, then I would be more liable to call.

[Clover362]

I think for this situation (which happend alot so thanks for the post) if you think he would raise with a draw sometimes it works to 3 band the flop (i know i'm going to get yelled at this but think about it). if you three bet it and another blank comes missing the draw you'll probably get him to fold on the turn with a bet as it now looks much more like you're playing an overpair and his pair outs are no good. obviously this move is read/player dependent( would he get of a pair if he suspected you hand an overpare? would he go into call down mode due to the size of the pot? ect) but i think with the righht timing it allows a few more of your Ak hands to be winners.

[Ricks]

I think that Haupt has it right. This would be an easy turn fold for me against an unknown.

[HoneyBadger]

[ QUOTE ]

The problem is compounded if you check the Turn and he checks behind. Then the River becomes difficult to play. You would like a free showdown but if you check OOP he might bet as a bluff.


[/ QUOTE ]
This is a known problem, it's described in middle limit hold'em. You should c/c or c/f, betting was bad. Use AK as a bluff catcher only.

[HoneyBadger]

I did read a lot about playing UI overcards; and the most important thing is to vary your play. I actually thought about 3 betting the flop as a line. This is more useful when you have the bdfd.

There's another good section about this in middle limit hold'em. I asked it because I want to know what all your lines are here, and we can all learn. This is a very difficult and frequently occuring situation; especially OOP.

(oh I ealize it's sounds very silly, first asking something and then saying "yah I know it all", I didn't mean it that way. I want to learn new lines, and see which are most popular.)

grease, i think you can't give yourself 6 outs on the turn, maybe 4 or 5 since opponent may have A9 or A8, 2 pairs or a set. without a read, it's "fold and fight another day" to me.

[James.]

on a flop like that vs. an unknown sometimes i'll just check/call down. you'll catch him bluffing with JT or a club draw often enough to show profit. of course there is also the portion of the time you improve over his PP or other pair as well. you look pretty fishy the rest of the time, but i consider that advertising. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] it has other benefits later in the session as well.