(LC) theory question - whatever happened to calling 3 bets with scs?

[deaders]

Ive been posting in ssnl for a good while now and remember it wasnt that long ago that everyone was a huge fan of calling preflop 3 bets with suited connectors, even oop, and of course small pocket pairs. The argument was that the implied odds are huge etc etc.

Lately I have noticed plenty of people advocating folding to the reraise. Say for example its 100nl, you raise utg with 55 to $4, a decent tag makes it $12 in the CO, plenty of people seem to be saying fold preflop, doubly so if you hold 56s or something. I had been folding more in this situation recently before I noticed this advice trend - were people overestimating the implied odds in the first place, or are do you have less implied odds now with good tags 3 betting a wider range therefore being less likely to stack off every time they 3-bet?

Or was I missing the point entirely and its better to just call the 3 bets by bad players with small pps and scs knowing that they are much more likely to lose their stack with an overpair if we flop huge?

[True]

with 100bb oop vs a good solid player it sucks, against someone with a very wide range even 125bb+ it's quite a good call. In button vs BB/SB its ok if u can bluff postflop but then again almost any 2 cards etc.

can't really explain more as it's quite table / opponent / card / range specific etc

[deaders]

Yeah I am assuming 100bb stacks, obviously deep stacked its completely different.

[Dan Bitel]

we're getting better

[shpanko]

I think it's a combination of things. One is that yea TAG's and LAG's are three betting a much wider range of hands especially with position and aren't going to go broke that often. So I guess you just can't make up the money you put in preflop. It sucks even more being OOP and is definitely not worth it with the state of play these days

[Thremp]

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we're getting better

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Yeah, people are spewtarding.


FWIW, playing OOP with a hand you'll miss a ton of flops on against a solid villain sucks.

[Mercman572]

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Lately I have noticed plenty of people advocating folding to the reraise. Say for example its 100nl, you raise utg with 55 to $4, a decent tag makes it $12 in the CO, plenty of people seem to be saying fold preflop, doubly so if you hold 56s or something.

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Back when it was popular to call, I always went against this advice.

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were people overestimating the implied odds in the first place,

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Most definitely. People would call with the upper range of the "5/10 rule" all day, even OOP

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or are do you have less implied odds now with good tags 3 betting a wider range therefore being less likely to stack off every time they 3-bet?

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This has something to do with it as well.

[Thremp]

Someone should remove the LC tag off the title, this seems like it could develop pretty well.


I'd before habitually 3bet 99+/AJs/AQo, which was a little excessive in 6max but not hugely so. Against unknowns you really have no clue though. Do they 3bet a AKs/QQ+ or what I listed above?

[orange]

This is really situational. scs are pretty lame hands to call RR-es with and I like pps alot more. Nonetheless, neither hand is very good unless you plan on making some sort of move on the flop (you don't have to make a move every time, but you should at least do it enough so you arent folding everytime).

Also, I will never CALL a RR OOP with a sc. Just takes another way of stealing the pot postflop (floating). RR-ing myself is a whole different story, but calling OOP to a RR can't be good without a v. v. strong hand.

[Thremp]

You think pulling the El D and checkraising A high flops with your small PP OOP, would be a decent way to help protect them?