One Chip Rule?

[Nuevo99]

I was playing at the Potty in Milwaukee 3/6 Limit.

Was the small blind and had my white $1 chip already in.

Was dealt QQ, and after several limpers I threw a red $5 chip in with the intention of raising it to $6, but didnt say "Raise".

The dealer didnt notice any diffrent and was going to say it was a raise (it's obvious what I was doing since I had 5 stacks of white), but several of the Potty regulars complained saying that it should be a call.

After much arguing and whining I let it go. The dealer at this point even admitted that he wasnt sure about that and I might of gotten screwed.

I went to ask the floor about it anyway just for future reference, and he said that it was just a call. But I dont totally trust the floor there because you will get a diffrent answer depending on who it is.

What do you guys think? I know that if it's 2/4 and I throw a red chip in (not in the blind) that it's a call unless I say "raise". Maybe they are right about this one as well, but it seems kind of stupid when it's so obvious what Im doing. (Im putting the exact amount of the raise in when I obviously could of just threw 2 white chips in if I intended to call)

[Party]

Putting one overvalued chip and not declaring it a raise always means call.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
Putting one overvalued chip and not declaring it a raise always means call.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the point in this case is that it is not a single chip. In this case there are two chips. This scenario is usually ruled a call, but I believe it should be a raise, unless the player takes back the chip he already had out in front of him, it just doesn't make sense to me a player intending to call would throw out a chip here but not bring back the smaller chip.

[youtalkfunny]

In the interest of consistancy, silently tossing in an oversized chip is a call--even if you toss it next to a chip or chips that are already out there.

"it's obvious what I was doing since I had 5 stacks of white" is not admissible evidence. Some players like having their stack composed of a single denomination, and will try to get rid of their oversized chips at the first oppurtunity. Unless we want to stop the game, so that the dealer can interview the player about his intentions, we're better off with a simple, consistant rule.

[AlienBoy]

SIgh. If you are going to raise, SAY SO.


AB

[Nuevo99]

That may be true about the consistant rule part, but I hardly think that throwing the exact amount in that you need to make it a proper raise is that ambigious that you have to ask.

(in the case where someone is dumping off chips, most of the time they will pull the $1 chip back, why would you put a total of $6 in as a call??)

Anyways I think I'll just say raise next time when raising from the small blind. (since normally I always throw in a red chip in there rather than 5 whites)

[ QUOTE ]
In the interest of consistancy, silently tossing in an oversized chip is a call--even if you toss it next to a chip or chips that are already out there.

"it's obvious what I was doing since I had 5 stacks of white" is not admissible evidence. Some players like having their stack composed of a single denomination, and will try to get rid of their oversized chips at the first oppurtunity. Unless we want to stop the game, so that the dealer can interview the player about his intentions, we're better off with a simple, consistant rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Nuevo99]

Sigh. Dont be a nit.

In most cases I DONT HAVE TO SAY RAISE (like if I put a red and a white out there and Im not in a blind in 3/6). It's obvious what Im doing and under the rule that's a valid raise, so unless you are one of those dolts that arent paying attention (or the dealer isnt paying attention which happens), thats your own fault.

In this case, I already had a white chip out there, intended to raise so I wanted to throw $5 and threw a red chip in. If I had threw 5 white chips in, everyone (who was paying attention) would of known it was a raise and nobody would of cared if I said it or not (unless they were a ultra-mega-super-nit)

It was probally a call under the rules, but since I didnt know the rules, dont give me that speal about saying 'raise'. I put $6 total out there in a 3/6 game, pre-flop, what the heck do you think that means??

It's not like I threw a green chip out there, or some other ambigious amount that doesnt mean anything.

[ QUOTE ]
SIgh. If you are going to raise, SAY SO.


AB

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[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Putting one overvalued chip and not declaring it a raise always means call.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the point in this case is that it is not a single chip. In this case there are two chips. This scenario is usually ruled a call, but I believe it should be a raise, unless the player takes back the chip he already had out in front of him, it just doesn't make sense to me a player intending to call would throw out a chip here but not bring back the smaller chip.

[/ QUOTE ]

This scenario has typically been ruled a call since it does involve putting one chip out there. The SB chip was out there before the cards were dealt so it doesn't count anymore. One chip pre-flop without announcing a raise is going to be ruled a call. The important fact here is that he threw only 1 chip out there pre-flop. That's the determining factor in the ruling. I'm actually surprised that the dealer didn't know this.

[GoAheadRiverMe]

[ QUOTE ]


It was probally a call under the rules, but since I didnt know the rules, dont give me that speal about saying 'raise'.


[/ QUOTE ]

You asked a question, got an answer and now you don't want to hear it?

One chip tossed in is a call even if there is another chip there. If you were to grab 5 chips as you mentioned it's a raise. Simply because it's more than "one chip". May sound stupid but that the way it is.

No matter what, with one chip you need to state your intention.

[Siegmund]

IMO it's not an overvalued chip at all if it is exactly the amount necessary to bring one's bet from $1 to $6.

I can see how the argument to the contrary is reasonable and wouldn't be all that surprised to find that the majority position is to rule this a call.