3/6 Flopped Trips, Multi-level Thinking

[Harv72b]

Probably the most interesting hand that I played this afternoon.

My image on this table is rock solid at this point--I've called down at the right points, bet for value at the right points, and shown down a very high percentage of winners. The rest of the table seems to be avoiding playing pots against me.

SB is 20/5/1 over 650+ hands. He's not terrible, but he's not great either (the passivity, among other things). He has played a lot against me, though, and despite my table image during this session knows that I'm capable of getting out of hand. Especially in a blind vs. blind scenario.

Assuming we are in fact good here, what line is going to maximize our earn in this hand?

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
7 folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: (2SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, Hero wonders what our line will be...?

[noob_sauce]

If he's aware enough to know you can get extremely aggro in blind battles as you suggest he is, I pop him here on the flop...

[Grease]

I agree, especially if he has seen you get out of line in the blinds before. If you just call now and pop the turn, he'll know you've been sitting on a monster.

I raise the flop and see what happens next. If 3-bet, I smooth-call and then pop the turn.

[noob_sauce]

yeah, I was debating this... If this passive of a player 3-bets us on the flop and then leads the turn, do you thing we're ahead often enough here to justify a turn raise? to me it spells that we are outkicked... even if the player knows harv is out of line sometimes, wouldn't a player this passive tend to go into a shell and call down with mediocre hands???

Another option I considered was capping the flop and then slowing down on the turn if he leads the turn... keeps us from facing that ugly turn 3-bet if we're behind and keeps the raising options open if we improve...

[Harv72b]

I did raise the flop. And I think that if this guy 3bet my flop raise I'm going to be drawing to a 5 to win pretty often, although I would usually have chop outs.

This hand, I think, demonstrates a concept that a lot of players tend to struggle with as they adapt their game from the microlimits up to through small stakes--that the flop really is just about posturing and setting your opponent up to do what you want him to on the turn. In this case, I wanted my opponent to call down with a worse hand than my trips, and to put as much money as possible into the pot in doing so. I felt that I could accomplish that best by simply raising the flop and betting every street thereafter.

If anyone was considering the more traditional line of flat calling on the flop &amp; popping the turn (or even a call/call/raise line), I think you have to consider both the opponent and what he knows about me. If I flat call his flop bet, he's going to take that to mean one of two things: either I flopped a monster and I'm waiting to pop the turn, or I flopped absolutely nothing and I'm hoping to steal the pot/make a hand later on. If I had a strong enough starting hand that I'd consider calling down with it unimproved, I would likely have raised preflop.

So, all of that combined with his passive nature means that if I flat call the flop, then unless he did something insane like limp a big pocket pair preflop (or he's beating me), he's probably going to either check/call or check/fold the turn. In other words, I'm rarely going to get in a turn raise at all if I try waiting, and when I do get it in it's often going to produce an immediate fold (or get me 3bet by a better hand). Probably the only way I'm getting a bet/call out of him on the turn is if he is holding a pocket pair higher than the turn card, or if he pairs the turn card (and it's not a 2)--pretty steep parlay.

So much about winning poker consists of varying your play and doing the opposite of what you think your opponent would expect you to do. This hand was a prime example of that (and because of that, was a lot of fun for me to play). The turn &amp; river brought running diamonds but no particularly scary cards, and I got called down by ace high, no kicker.

[mjkidd]

Do you think it was a reasonable calldown by your opponent?

[TheHip41]

I have been fast playing on the flop with monsters HU in blind battles, and it has worked well.

When you raise that flop, he will put you on anything but a Q.

Raise the flop and win money.

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
if I flat call the flop, then unless he did something insane like limp a big pocket pair preflop (or he's beating me), he's probably going to either check/call or check/fold the turn. In other words, I'm rarely going to get in a turn raise at all if I try waiting, and when I do get it in it's often going to produce an immediate fold (or get me 3bet by a better hand).

[/ QUOTE ]

I have learned this lesson.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think it was a reasonable calldown by your opponent?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against me, absolutely. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Buckmulligan]

i call here, raise the turn. raising the flop is ok but the turn is better, IMO.In contrary to harv's comments, I tend to think that this benign board does a few things for us that make the turn wait a good plan. First, it's a dry board so the chances increase that villain will rebet the turn. Second, beacuse it's QQ on the flop, not AA or KK. This means two things. First, it's going to be harder to give us credit for a hand on the turn. Second, it leaves us with more worse hands that may potentially call down the turn raise. I see a good number of people call down stuff like KT here, for instance.