A question for True and other LAGs

[Stealthy]

My game has developed in the last month or so into a proper LAG one, re-raising light, punishing limpers with ATC and generally mashing the raise button when on the button as often as i can get away with it. Nothing too mad, around 24/19 or something in that ballpark, maybe more sLAG than LAG maybe?

I had quite a torrid session today dropping over 6 buyins at the low point before coming back to break even. Most of the big pots I lost was when I held overpairs to the board, although I did have a healthy helping of beats too.

What would typically happen is that I raises from say CO with QQ after 1 limper and just the limper calls, flop comes something like J 7 4r and I make my normal CB and get mini-raised. Now obviously the min-raise is usually top pair+ on the flop but very often ONLY top pair. Most of the times today they would then lead for half their remaining stack on the turn which would be around a 3/4 bet and I have to decided there or then whether they have me or are just overplaying AJ, KJ etc or even bluffing. I would say for the 20+ times this happened today I had the best hand going into the turn probably only 30% of the time but got outdrawn over half the times I was ahead just to add to the misery. I folded a few but went with most of them and ran into a lot of sets.

I have heard it said before that if you are playing LAG then people are going to get frustrated with you stealing so many pots and are going to make more mistakes as a result. Part of what was also said was that you should not really be looking to fold too many overpairs on safe looking boards because of this, as peoples frustration will make them overplay mediocre hands.

Before I ramble on too long all I really want to know is if I have just been unlucky or whether min check-raise followed by a 3/4 pot bet is almost always bad news for my JJ+ and I should be pitching them as a general rule.

[NewTeaBag]

As you learn the syle you learn to read hands differently.

Without strong hand reading skills LAGing it up will only ive you more variance.

Are you confident in his skill?

If not, why not beat your new LAG style aound at lower levels before putting it in place at ur normal level?

[Stealthy]

bumped

[keikiwai]

For LAG play re: value of your overpairs, and other hands, you have to be conscious of your image. Have you been showing down pots? Have you won pots w/ random holdings? Have you had to fold some big pots after being the aggressor... etc.

Depending on these things, and villains tendencies, will help guide you in valuing your hands.

Generally you're swithing gears. So when you're at the beginning of "tight" mode is when your overpairs etc. are worth the most. This will be after you play fast furious and loose, and people start playing back at you. This is when you'll get called down light, played back at light.

The beginning of "loose" mode is when these hands are worth the least. At this point you feel like you're getting a lot of respect at the table... people are folding to your c-bets and pfrs, etc., and your opening up your range to take advantage of the situation. So when someone plays back at you here, they'll have a stronger hand.

It's actually pretty obvious.... the moments when you start saying to yourself, "WHAT THE [censored], HOW CAN I NOT PUSH HIM OFF OF ACE HIGH.... WHY DOESN'T ANYONE EVER FOLD.... THAY CAN'T ALWAYS HIT THE FLOP!" that's when you can take overpairs to valuetown

OTOH, if it's "Oh look everyone's been folding... this is too easy.... oh wait, this guy raised." Then you'd better watch out.

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
For LAG play re: value of your overpairs, and other hands, you have to be conscious of your image. Have you been showing down pots? Have you won pots w/ random holdings? Have you had to fold some big pots after being the aggressor... etc.

Depending on these things, and villains tendencies, will help guide you in valuing your hands.

Generally you're swithing gears. So when you're at the beginning of "tight" mode is when your overpairs etc. are worth the most. This will be after you play fast furious and loose, and people start playing back at you. This is when you'll get called down light, played back at light.

The beginning of "loose" mode is when these hands are worth the least. At this point you feel like you're getting a lot of respect at the table... people are folding to your c-bets and pfrs, etc., and your opening up your range to take advantage of the situation. So when someone plays back at you here, they'll have a stronger hand.

It's actually pretty obvious.... the moments when you start saying to yourself, "WHAT THE [censored], HOW CAN I NOT PUSH HIM OFF OF ACE HIGH.... WHY DOESN'T ANYONE EVER FOLD.... THAY CAN'T ALWAYS HIT THE FLOP!" that's when you can take overpairs to valuetown

OTOH, if it's "Oh look everyone's been folding... this is too easy.... oh wait, this guy raised." Then you'd better watch out.

[/ QUOTE ]

It may still be too early for me after my late night last night. Are you saying I get played back at less when playing LAG than TAG or the other way around? Perhaps it all comes down to reads at the end of the day.

Thanks for the great reply though even if I may have missed the point! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[snowbank]

[ QUOTE ]
My game has developed in the last month or so into a proper LAG one, re-raising light, punishing limpers with ATC and generally mashing the raise button when on the button as often as i can get away with it. Nothing too mad, around 24/19 or something in that ballpark, maybe more sLAG than LAG maybe?

I had quite a torrid session today dropping over 6 buyins at the low point before coming back to break even. Most of the big pots I lost was when I held overpairs to the board, although I did have a healthy helping of beats too.

What would typically happen is that I raises from say CO with QQ after 1 limper and just the limper calls, flop comes something like J 7 4r and I make my normal CB and get mini-raised. Now obviously the min-raise is usually top pair+ on the flop but very often ONLY top pair. Most of the times today they would then lead for half their remaining stack on the turn which would be around a 3/4 bet and I have to decided there or then whether they have me or are just overplaying AJ, KJ etc or even bluffing. I would say for the 20+ times this happened today I had the best hand going into the turn probably only 30% of the time but got outdrawn over half the times I was ahead just to add to the misery. I folded a few but went with most of them and ran into a lot of sets.

I have heard it said before that if you are playing LAG then people are going to get frustrated with you stealing so many pots and are going to make more mistakes as a result. Part of what was also said was that you should not really be looking to fold too many overpairs on safe looking boards because of this, as peoples frustration will make them overplay mediocre hands.

Before I ramble on too long all I really want to know is if I have just been unlucky or whether min check-raise followed by a 3/4 pot bet is almost always bad news for my JJ+ and I should be pitching them as a general rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stealthy,

6 buys ins is nothing playing lag. You probably just have to get used to the style. You will have to look at your opponents ranges much differently depending on your image. They will obviously be doing the same for you, and if you are playing correctly they will be in tough spots against you more often than you are against them.

[keikiwai]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying I get played back at less when playing LAG than TAG or the other way around?

[/ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]
So, the point at which you switch from loose to tight is when you get the least respect... that's why you switch.... and hopefully your villains won't realize you've switched until it's too late.

The point at which you start to loosen up is when you get the most respect... that's why you switch.


[/ QUOTE ]

Let's say you sit down at a table, and you fold everything for two orbits. You are now playing tight.

The first time you pfr, everyone will likely fold because they are scared of the strenght this rare raise represents.

Now you begin to loosen up. At the beginning of the loosening up process, you are getting respect, you are not getting played back at, since you've been playing tight.

As you keep loosening up, eventually your opponents will not believe the strength you are representing, and they will start calling down light / playing back. This is when you make the big bucks by switching gears, tightening up, and playing a big pot with a decent holding vs. villain's frustrated very poor holding.



[/ QUOTE ]

Ofcourse this is oversimplified, since it's basically implying that your image is based upon your pf stats... in reality it is also, probably more so, affected by the quality of hands you show down, and how often you take down pots w/o showdown.

[Stealthy]

Snowbank

I am not overly concerned about the 6 buyins but rather as to how many of them could have been avoided by playing for stacks with an overpair.

Keikiwai

Thanks again

[uuser]

The best sessions start when I get in the beginning of the session a couple of very good hands and get them to the showdown. After that I can steal by c-betting very long time. The very good thing is if the next showdown is again with nuts or close to it (and with good cards). Villains get really confused. After this showdown I'm able to fire 3 bullets with no hesitation against a certain opponents.