Stud is a good fit for me

rory · #1 12-01-2006, 04:38 PM

Stud is good fit for me because I play pretty tight and I like to pay off so I never fold. In stud the pot is big come the end a lot of time so I just pay off constantly. Should I? Here are three spots. Sorry for the multi-hand post but I think it is managable for this type of post.

75/150 stud hi, $15 ante, $25 bringin

Hand #1:

Me: (33)K8K8
Opp: (xx)TQJK, two hearts (door was a heart)

It was 3 way on 4th but it has been heads up since then. I raised third and got called in two spots and the game is 9 handed so there is 1000ish in the pot on sixth. I check sixth and he bets. All Aces and 9s are live. All my cards are live except for the dead king. I call sixth. And then I check call UI on the end. I don't know the opponent very well, but he plays very loosely. He is capable of bluffing with scary boards but is also a bet-misser. What do you all think about this?

Hand #2:

Me: (4Ax)4Axx
Opp: (xxx)JKKT

We were heads up the whole hand where I raised coming in on third and he called. He had called me up until fifth where he bet out when he made open kings. I raised with aces up and he just called. He check called sixth. On the river he checked blind, I bet and he raised. His board was rainbowy and there is 1800 in the pot when he raised me on the end. Call or fold? This is the same player as the previous hand. I don't have a really great read as he can be random in terms of being aggressive with substandard hands and passive with very good hands. It is as if he doesn't know how to value his hand strength in certain spots.

Hand #3:

I have (A6)Axx against (xx)KT4, been heads up since third. This player plays tightly and is in general afraid of me. I bet fifth and he raises. I just call. He bets when I check on sixth and also bets on the end. I think this player is a bit of a bet misser too on the end, but my read is not really great yet. I do not improve on the end. There is approximately 1500 in the pot. Call or fold unimproved aces?

Sorry for the multi-hand post and slightly skimpy information. I'm trying to calibrate my marginal call radar.

HOWMANY · #2 12-01-2006, 04:50 PM

I would fold all three. I'd fold the second one even easier if I called on the end of the first one and lost.

Poker CPA · #3 12-01-2006, 04:59 PM

"I like to pay off so I never fold" I assume they know that too. Call Fold Fold

Bill King · #4 12-01-2006, 05:14 PM

ya #2 is a fold.. especially if he checked blind, looked and then raised.. unless he thinks you're a nit but you said you have been paying off so i'd go ahead and fold.

so is #3 a fold.

#1 i might call.. its the closest of the three IMO.

Wahoo73 · #5 12-01-2006, 05:25 PM

Re Hand #1: IMO, you should have bet 6th street. Given the way you had played the hand to this point, I don't see how he could raise you even if he had made a straight, and if he hadn't made a straight at this point he may well have folded to your bet. But your check essentially told him that all you had was Ks over and gave him an opportunity to take the initiative and make you "believe" he had made a straight. It seems to me that if you're going to play this way and check 6th, you might as well fold right then.

Re Hand #2: I think you have to call him on the river under the assumption that he may only be giving you credit for having a smaller two pairs (e.g., 4s and a pair of whatever your 5th street card was) than his Ks over. Although I suspect you will lose this probably 80-90% of the time, you're getting more than 10 to 1 to call.

Re Hand #3: Assuming you raised 3rd street in front of him and he called it, I think you have to give him credit for at least having Ks and 4s or trip 4s after he raises you on 5th street. Thus, you may want to fold on 5th if you're uncomfortable with the prospect of calling two more bets before you get to the river only to be faced with the prospect of having to call a 3rd bet with unimproved As. Alternatively, I think re-raising on 5th street could also work because (at least in my experience) it could give you a good opportunity to see the last two cards for free.

cgrohman · #6 12-01-2006, 05:30 PM

#1= Fine.

#2= Normally this would be a fold,as he is showing open kings and is not likely to raise someone who has bet every street with just kings up. Therefore, you are likely crushed. However, if he has seen you fold to this type of bet before and/or has shown himself to be a bit loopy, there ain't nothing wrong with caling.

#3- Ummm, if I call 5th and 6th here I am defintely calling the river. I don't think I am ahead though. If this player is truly tight and afraid of you, do you think he is raising 2 pair? If so, your calls on 5th and 6th are perfectly standard. However, such a player might have been slowing playing. Any suits on this hand?

Brad1970 · #7 12-01-2006, 05:33 PM

In order for me to make an informed opinion, I would really like to have more information as to dead cards, position, what happened on every street, etc in all 3 examples. But, if I were to hazard a guess...I'd say call, fold, & fold.

But, I would like to make a couple of comments.

First off,

"I play pretty tight and I like to pay off so I never fold." is an oxymoron in poker. If you're playing tight, you'll fold on later streets if you feel you're beat. Sounds like you are awfully LAGish to me.

Secondly, if you're playing at 75-150 while trying to learn the game or hone your skills & these 3 hands are indicative of your play, then you'd better have a deep pocket because at the rate you are going....

And lastly, you play/have played alot of tournament holdem don't you?

cgrohman · #8 12-01-2006, 05:35 PM

I am the only person who likes a call on hand one??? Calling down allows you to check raise stronger hands later etc- but I think the main reason is that he just might be bluffing. At the last 30-60 game I played, an agressive player raised my river bet when I showed (xx)KKxx(x) and couldn't beat the board.

rory · #9 12-01-2006, 05:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]

But, I would like to make a couple of comments.

First off,

"I play pretty tight and I like to pay off so I never fold." is an oxymoron in poker. If you're playing tight, you'll fold on later streets if you feel you're beat. Sounds like you are awfully LAGish to me.

Secondly, if you're playing at 75-150 while trying to learn the game or hone your skills & these 3 hands are indicative of your play, then you'd better have a deep pocket because at the rate you are going....

And lastly, you play/have played alot of tournament holdem don't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can think you are beat and still call. In fact, that is one definition of calling. When you just call on the end, you are calling because you think there is a > 50% chance you are beat. If you think there is a > 50% chance your hand is good, you should raise, not call. In reality it needs to be a bit more than 50% in case you get reraised or what not but calling is, in a broad sense, thinking you are beat. At least thinking you are beat 40% of the time.

You might have me confused with someone else. I have pretty much never played tournaments.

Wahoo73 · #10 12-01-2006, 05:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am the only person who likes a call on hand one???

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm OK with the call on the river, I just think that the check-call on 6th street sucks. Not only does betting 6th street give you a chance to make Villain fold, I think it may also give you a chance to check the River and have Villain check behind. But as I stated, Hero's checking on 6th street is just telling Villain that Ks over is all he's got and gives Villain the opportunity to push him off the hand, which is exactly what the Villain does. Again, it seems to me if Hero is going to play this way, he might as well check-fold 6th street.