How to start a bankroll for *NL* HE

[imzadim]

I've read tons of FAQs etc, and there are great articles about building bankrolls, but they seem be oriented to beginners playing limit HE. There are a few tips about NL like having about 20 buyins in your budget, but that's usually it.

I really would like to focus in NL (or maybe pot limit) since is the game I love and most of the experience and education (books, etc) I have is oriented to it. So is it possible to start like this? Or I should just go and learn to play limit and then transition once I have a descent BR?

Thanks!!!

[3CardMonty]

I understand the delima over the lack of information concerning NL games.

Limit games have been the subject of several very good books. One of those books is SSHE by Ed Miller. There are also several other sources of excellent written information by authors at 2+2 publishing.

NL books have not been abundant however there are two excellent books by Dan Harrington dealing with tournament play.

The good news for you is there will be a book coming out in the next few months by Ed Miller which dives into NL Hold'em and should prove as valuable (my opinion) as the ones he has written on Limit games.

In the mean while post your questions here in the forum. There are excellent resources available for NL as well as Limit play.

With respect to the bankroll issues, what are you plans and ideas on where you want to start? Are you thinking along the lines of bonus whoring ring games or leaning more toward SNG / MTT action?

Edit: You might want to read this thread as well as the ones in the links for beginners section of this forum.
Building a bankroll for newbies - revisited

The thread above is a take off on the original thread by 'HOMER' and presents some updated information which will allow you to get started without making a cash deposit. Certainly a source of free cash should be a welcome find for any new player. After that you can move on and bonus whore sites to build the bank up even more. This information applies equally to Limit and NL play.

Monty

[Profit187]

I played in the beginner NL rooms on Party. I did much better there since I too had only played NL before. The problem however is that often a read can not be made. Be ready for some bad beats... it seems on Party the best starting hands to have are 3/5o, 2/9o... actually any two random cards (so long as they are not painted) will always get a miracle on the river. Forget those pocket Aces that you flopped Trips with -- you'll still lose on the River

(Any guess how my last few days have gone?)

[imzadim]

Thanks for the advice!

There's definitely a lot of info out there about whoring ring games in general, etc., but I'm also trying to understand how to manage a bank roll independently of bonuses, etc, but more focused on gameplay. For example, how much would be a descent buy out in a NL $0.25 game? Or what would be the best strategy if you want to play SNG/MTT *and* ring NL games?

[3CardMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
For example, how much would be a descent buy out in a NL $0.25 game?

[/ QUOTE ]
I assume you are asking what would be the right amount to buy-in to a ring. If this is the case and you are not playing a short stack strategy then you should buy in at the maximum buy-in. There is a minimum buy-in recommendation which will vary depending on the stakes being played. For $5/$10 the minimum would be $500.00, $50/$100 mim is $5000.00, $300/$500 minimum would be about $25,000.00. As you can see the mimimum buy-in is roughly 50*BB however it is recommended that you buy in for twice this amount and even more if the game is not capped at 100*BB. You allways want to have as much as you can at the table in NL Hold'em standard ring games.

[ QUOTE ]
Or what would be the best strategy if you want to play SNG/MTT *and* ring NL games?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very big question!

My thoughts are keep most of your play in the ring games as they will likely be the most consistently winning games games. Rings also have the trade off of acclerated variance over SNG's or MTT's so you want to be carefull not to get involved in games you cannot afford to play.

When I look at SNG's and MTT's the first thing I have to acknowledge is I will not win them all. This is especially true of MTT games.

If you want to play them all then you will want to find a suitable mix to preserve your win consistency and conserve your interest in the game variations. This is a difficult area to give advice on since it involves a players best play practice. Some players are better at SNG's than MTT's and others can only consistently win playing rings.

I believe most will, in general, tell you to stick to the ring games more than SNG games, and SNG games more than MTT games. People usually win more consistently in that given order.

Monty

[imzadim]

Thanks for that, excellent advice.

I would assume then that an ok bankroll for playing NL $0.25 games is about $250 (50*BB * 20buyins) assuming your game is not super aggressive...

[jmillerdls]

Pretty good general advice all around...however:
I would point out that purely on a skill basis, SNG's are the easiest to learn. They can be beaten within a very short time if you read the SNG forum on here. They also have the added benefit of having the lowest form of variance of any form of poker (i.e. your swings in bankroll up or down). The order being MTT, Limit cash, NL cash, SNGs from greatest variance to least.
I think choosing one or the other is really a personal preferance. I enjoy SNGs, but am more comfortable in NL ring games.

[3CardMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for that, excellent advice.

I would assume then that an ok bankroll for playing NL $0.25 games is about $250 (50*BB * 20buyins) assuming your game is not super aggressive...

[/ QUOTE ]
It would be more along the line of $500.00 or 20*Max Table Buy-in of $25.00 is the general recommendation.

50*BB is the minimum recommended table buy-in, the best recommendation is to buy in for 2 times the minimum, 100*BB (usually table max) or more if allowed.

In a NL game you want to be the big stack or evenly matched. Without doing that you cannot break other fully stacked opponents.

Monty

[3CardMonty]

It is true that SNG's are fairly easy on the scale of all games to learn. From a purely personal point of view I also prefer ring games as I feel they have a higher return for the time invested. This however can vary from player to player and certainly for some a SNG may indeed be the long awaited mecca. Even those who simply play tight/passive/neutral can many times place in the money at a single table SNG game.

Thanks for pointing out the variance issue with MTT's. Your observations are correct. Why I grouped that next to a SNG is beyond me.

Monty