interesting 2-7 topic: quantity vs quality

[Nomar]

here is a senerio I have thought about and saw on DD's video that made me decide to post about it...

utg raises, and is called in 2 spots and the sb calls, action is now on you in the BB with 2378Q...

In DD's video it seemed like he was going to keep the 8 until all the people kept coming in, then he decided to toss the 8 in ths big multi way pot, and try to make a big hand.

I have been on both sides of this debate, toss the 8 and try to make a strong hand, OR, keep the 8 and just try to make a showdownable hand, because of all the dead cards (assuming everyone is holding everyone else's outs) an 87 will win this pot enough of the time.

comments ?

[YKMM]

I'm new in this game but a 4-way draw to a rough 8 OOP doesn't look to attractive too me. I much prefer to draw 2, and the play on the later streets is usually simpler.

[*TT*]

Depends on the action, sometimes I drop he 8, sometimes I keep it. BUT I am willing to drop the 8 on later rounds.

keep in mind there are 28 baby cards 8 and below. Removing the 6 which creates lots of rough hands there are 24 baby cards. If you have a 4 player multiway pot with each player drawing 2 cards that means we have to expect 1/2 of the baby cards are removed. 5 way pot we have to assume that there are only 9 outs remaining, which means you should probably discount your outs.

Then we can consider other factors such as dead outs that affect your opponents ability to draw to the nuts, dead duces which means they are drawing rough, etc etc etc. TD is not just a game of catching cards when you are playing multi-way, you can now define your opponents hands much easier.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[MarkGritter]

I've been coming around to the side of dumping the 8 when OOP as is the case here.

The hidden advantage of drawing two is that you can often get away from the hand on the third round. Losing less money is just as good as winning more. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

And an 87 will probably have reverse implied odds here. There is no question that 87 draws are much better heads-up than multiway.

Suppose you have 8732 and you're up against 842, 752, and 762. (remaining outs: 2 8's, 1 7, 3 6's, 3 5's, 3 4's, 3 3's.)

Each of these hands has 9 outs to a smoother draw. Let's call it 52 - 5 - 3 - 3 - 3 = 38 unknown cards. So they all brick something like (27/38)^6 = 13% of the time. (That's not quite correct, but I'm too lazy to work out the right number right now.)

You, of course, have 9 outs to improve to a pat 8. 9/38 is about 24%.

So at least 65% of the time you are definitely not the favorite after the first draw. Food for thought.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Losing less money is just as good as winning more.

[/ QUOTE ]

so nice, it should be said twice.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
here is a senerio I have thought about and saw on DD's video that made me decide to post about it...

utg raises, and is called in 2 spots and the sb calls, action is now on you in the BB with 2378Q...


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, there was a hand like this where he had a 278 and was going to defend draw 2 but then someone coldcalled so he unclicked the 8 and drew 3. I think that's the best way to play it. I have no problem drawing to non-nut hands, but I just don't want to do it in multiway pots.