2 Tricky Ones

[theBruiser500]

HAND 1, 25/50 PLO on FTP, I have 11k and opponent has 18k, not much of a read on him, I think he is okay and maybe a bit passive but not sure. I have 9d 8d 7d 6s and open for $175, big stack calls, then SB calls, BB folds. Flop is 7s 6h 7c, I lead out pot of $575, big stack calls. HU.

Turn is Js, I bet out $1,725 and big stack calls again. River is Kc, I thought and thought and checked with no plan in mind.

HAND 2, this was right after the first one. I have 14k and same opponent has 16k. I have Ks Jc Tc 8d, he limps UTG, next guy raises to $225, SB folds, me and limper call (4 handed).

Flop is Qc 6c Js... what sort of plan are you looking at here? I led out for $600 and limper calls, raiser folds. Turn is 8s, and here I led out pot again for $1900, he called.

River is Kh, what now?

[piiop]

Hand 1 - I like betting some amount better than checking the river, like 1/3-1/2 pot. Fold to a raise. I think either calling you down lightly, he's got a 7 not full on flop or turn, or has a draw like 89T. In all cases, he's not betting the river unless he has you beat but will call river with a bare 7 or something dumb cuz he thinks you have nothing.

Hand 2 - Sucky river, I think this one is tough. I feel like a strong hand like nfd+wrap, set+nfd or set+wrap would've raised the flop. I don't know if he's the type of player to raise T9 no redraws on the turn or wait til the river. Think he'll bluff the river often if you check? I'm thinking your hand is better a bluffcatcher here. I dunno

[ratholeusoul]

In these situations I usually make a small valuebet (for example 1/3 to 1/2 potsize) and fold to a raise. Mostly just to prevent the opponent from bluffing the pot from me, as I'd be very uncomfortable making a big call.

In the first one you're pretty strong, if he's been drawing to fill up his lone 7, there's no reason to assume the K helped him, until told otherwise. Opponents regularly call potsize bets with naked trips here, and even more happily with ace kicker.

The second hand in my experience usually loses, unless villain likes to play catch with just flushdraws. I'd probably take the same line of making a valuebettish size bet to fold out missed flushdraws, (better) two pairs, bottom set and weakest straights... but fold to a raise.

[BluffTHIS!]

In hand #1 like the other guys said, go for a blocking bet as played. The K probably didn't hurt you but the J was a bad card as it is closer to the 7.

In hand #2 that's the kind of problems you get leading with draws OOP, but if you don't lead with them then you won't get as much action with sets, but you are shorthanded and you have a big enough draw. What I would have done after leading the flop though was to check the turn with the intention of checkraising a large bet if I thought he didn't have to have the T9 to bet and was an aggressive player, and would do the same with a set often to provide cover for that move.

The problem is this guy is a passive loose drawer. And if he is a river bluffer as well, then that is a hard combo to play against. So the solution with those kind of players is not to build big pots OOP for them to take away on the river when you just have draws and often brick. One of the players in the other thread of yours from UB is a master of that style of passive play to the river and aggressive bluffing when most draws miss.

[theBruiser500]

Hand 1 - I agree with you guys, not sure what I was thinking when the hand was goign down. For some reason I feared pocket jacks and pocket kings but there was no flush draw so this guy isn't calling pots on the flop and turn with pocket kings. He's not calling the flop with pocket jacks, and won't call the turn bet with pocket kings (unless he had pocket kings and also hit a flush draw, I think he'd call the flop with the kings).

What do you think he has on the turn? On second thought maybe he wouldn't even call pocket kings with a flush draw because the board is paired, and a straight draw is pretty ugly to be callign with there on the turn.

Hand 2 - I disagree with you guys. I think c/r the turn is an ugly play given stack sizes, I could be playing into the nuts easily especially since he's passive, I'm only c/r his best hands. What about the flop line, how about c/c or c/r on the flop? That changes the way the whole hand is played. On the river it seemed like I could represent a straight (although it's interesting what bet size to choose, i.e. what straight to represent) and there's a chance he has a set or two pair and won't call...was real tempted to bluff there. But checked and he won with a set of queens.

[BluffTHIS!]

In hand #1 he often just has a 7 with an A kicker. If he ended up showing you JJ or KK and is a reasonable player, then he would also have 7 in his hand, and probably wouldn't just be drawing to a straight or flush with the board paired unless he only put you on AA with your sidecards missing.

With #2 you normally should just either c/c the flop or lead and then c/c the turn (assuming he would pay you off if you hit and thus had implied odds). I only advocated a possible c/r on the turn because if he would aggressively bet just a draw when you blinked you are repping the made straight yourself and have a lot of outs to fall back on. So if he doesn't have the T9, then he will fold either the bare nut flush draw or a weak straight draw only, and would only play if he did have the T9 or a combo draw that crushed yours.

[Big Dave D]

Bruiser,

Its a bit of a tangent, but why are you playing these games?

gl

Dave

[BluffTHIS!]

BDD,

PLO is now cool. And all the HSNL players think it's the path to riches. However Bruiser has shown over the years with NL that he is willing to be brually honest with himself and work hard to improve and take advice. So I like his chances better than most.

[beset]

I like bruiser chances more then most also. I was sweating a 25/50 game the other day that he was playing in and he was playing very solid poker.

I lol'd in a recent BBV thread however where a high-stakes LHE player who had drop 150k in the 50/100+ PLO games around the net was advised by another NL convert to PLO to "drop down to 25/50 on stars and grind out for a while until you get a feel for the game." Wow!

[Big Dave D]

This wasn't a AZK style jibe. I know Bruisers rep here too, which is why I am genuinely interested. To be brutually frank, the largest games seem to be places where the biggest bankrolls move money between each other on a semi-random basis. There must be better spots to put your $1m bankroll into action.

gl

dd