Christianity vs. "Cultural" Religions

[Prodigy54321]

In a discussions with a christian friend or mine, he often talks about how the huge number of christians is evidence for its validity. I made the argument that he must also, then, count the number of people who believe Islam to be evidence for that as well, and since christianity and islam are not compatible, he must concede that billions or more poeple believing in their religion is not evidence for its validity..basically saying that people are typically of a certain religion because they are brought up that way, not because there is any better reason to believe in that particular religion..

He refuted that by saying that unlike islam, christianity is not a cultural religion..in typical christian societies, there are a lot of things in the culture that pressure people away from christianity..and being religious in not necessarily the norm...but in muslim societies, there is little pressure to go against the teachings of the religion and being a religious person IS the norm..so the number of christians compared to other religions like islam IS a testament to its validity.

I see this as a pretty good rebuttal to my argument..

certainly a huge number of people believing in something does not necesarily make it true, especially when there is little to no evidence to back it up...but I suppose that it may be a testament to its validity at least somewhat. I would also say that although christian societies may not be culturally christian in the sense that muslim societies are culturally muslim, christian societies ARE culturally theistic, and since the only "reasonable" religion around in most of these societies is christianity (basically just because most people around them are christians), there IS great pressure to be a christian in much the same way that there is great pressure to be a muslim in a muslim society...also the huge numbers of apathetic christians may point out this difference between our culture being generally theistic rather than christian.

What are your thoughts on this?

[tolbiny]

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and being religious in not necessarily the norm

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I don't know what he means by this but from this source
250,000,000 out of 300,000,000 people in the US are listed as "christian". Identifying yourself with some form of christianity to some degree is most definately the norm in the US. The culture in the Us may not be as strong as a thoecratic muslim country that by no means that there isn't a heavy influence. Just think of all the references to christmass and easter in our culture, the pressure is visible more on the believe in christianity side than it is in the don't believe in christianity side.

[Prodigy54321]

looking at the argument again..it does seem rather circular...

if there is little influence to become a (religious) christian because religious christians are not the norm in our society, then that means that most christians are simply apathetic christians...(since most people classify themselves as christians)

so although it may be true that there is less pressure to become a christian,

he must concede that the figure for the amount of christians in the first place is not nearly as high as the number for muslims...since a large amount of christain must be described as "apathetic believers" and not true religious believers in order to support his premise that there is little pressure

He would have to show that the lack of influence to become a christian and the influences away from christianity ..is not because of a lack of religious christians around them, but because of the influence of some minority group..

maybe the jews? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[kurto]

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but I suppose that it may be a testament to its validity at least somewhat.

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Not really.

Let's take a more recent example... if more people thought Saddam had a fleet of planes ready to spread germ warfare around the earth... would it mean it was more valid?

What happens if more people rediscovered the ancient Gods and started to worship Zeus? Would the Greek Gods become more real/valid and the Christian God less valid simply because more people started to follow that religion?

I know you know this, its evident in your OP, so I'm just restating the obvious. But the entire basis for your friends argument is just so wrong.

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in typical christian societies, there are a lot of things in the culture that pressure people away from christianity..and being religious in not necessarily the norm...but in muslim societies, there is little pressure to go against the teachings of the religion and being a religious person IS the norm..so the number of christians compared to other religions like islam IS a testament to its validity.


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I don't know where he gets this idea. My brother lives in North Carolina. He teaches youth bible classes. He hangs out with Adult Bible Study Group. They go on trips together. His entire social life/free is orchestrated around his religion. He is also comparing the extremes. Tell your friend their are probably a couple million Muslims in America... they face the same pressures or lack of pressures as other Americans.

I recently saw a story (Time Magazine?) about how in England, many Christians are converting to Islam. I wonder how that fits into your friends theory?