check check

[mr pink]

20/40 live at the borgata

villain just sat down a few orbits ago. no real read on him except he's wearing dark shades and bought in for only 10 bbs so he's probably a donkey.

villain opens in late mp, 1 fold to me, I 3bet AQo in the CO i think. blinds drop, villain calls, heads up.

flop is QJJ rainbow

check, bet/call.

turn is an offsuit Ace

he checks, i check it behind planning on calling most rivers and raising if i boat up.

thoughts?

[private joker]

I like doing this in some spots, but in this case I think I'd bet/call and call the river. I'd hate to give a free card here, and if he's planning on checkraising with AK, then please let him spew. I think sometimes he has a J and you're escaping a c/r, but most of the time you're leaving bets on the table here.

The prospect of inducing a bluff from 99/TT/whatever isn't as great as picking up the extra bet from AT/AK/whatever.

[The DaveR]

If I'm checking the turn it's so I can raise the river.

[shemp]

I'm not saying never do this, but against weak or wild opposition you shouldn't be spending too much time congratulating yourself on frustrating their check raises.

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
The prospect of inducing a bluff from 99/TT/whatever isn't as great as picking up the extra bet from AT/AK/whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about saving a bet(S) from Jx that is most definitely c/r'ing the turn if if bet?

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm checking the turn it's so I can raise the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

fair enough, and I expected someone to say this.

but after he check/calls on a very dry flop, what are you putting him on that pays off a river raise?

[goofball]

a) KT also just got there.
b) this is pretty feel dependent imo. Looking at the villian and deciding too. Online I'd mostly bet/calldown, live I'd look into the guy's soul.

[shemp]

I understand the argument that the only reasonable thing you can see that will call a flop bet is KT or a J or something with 2 outs, and maybe a now crushed A-high -- and that is all well and good. I'm not criticising that or treading lightly with unknown players. I think you played the hand fine.

I also think foiling check-raises can be a dangerous route to losing value or looking up the nuts on the river and that congratulating yourself on the latter can lead to weakness. And weakness leads to fear. And fear leads to suffering.

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
I also think foiling check-raises can be a dangerous route to losing value or looking up the nuts on the river

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the main reason for the check in the first place. b/c my hand is good enough to call a check/raise in the first place (from something like AK or an out of the line AT) that folding outright would be pretty bad.

but more often than not (esp. given the nature of the 20/40 lately at the borg), i'm way behind and drawing to 4 outs at best.

[shemp]

I don't know that game. What would you do if the turn was an 8?