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#1
10-06-2006, 07:41 AM
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philosophy of poker/crosspost.
Hi,
in a previous message, i was explaining how a little incident in a cardroom made me think about vice in poker. we all know poker is for a very big part lying, manipulating, make others believe.this implies human reading and comprehension. since lying and manipulating is not good in qutidian life, how do you justify them in poker ? this must sound as a very naiver question. perhaps i am very naive, but i feel it's a deep matter i have to look at in order to continue to play well. until now all this was natural, and i never asked myself the question. Thaks. and once more, Sorry for the english. 
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#2
10-06-2006, 07:49 AM
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Re: philosophy of poker/crosspost.
It's no different than politics, law, and the financial sector.
Telemarketers? I think poker's an easy target because there is less hypocrisy about the methods you use to extract money from your opponent.
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#3
10-06-2006, 09:13 AM
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Re: philosophy of poker/crosspost.
[ QUOTE ]
since lying and manipulating is not good in qutidian life, how do you justify them in poker ? [/ QUOTE ] ...justify? I like money, and everyone else is using the same tactics. Part of the rules and understanding of poker is that everyone is using these tactics, and everyone knows everyone is using these tactics, and everyone knows everyone knows. By playing, you implicitly accept that others will be lying to, manipulating, and deceiving you. It is all out on the playing field.
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#4
10-06-2006, 09:24 AM
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Re: philosophy of poker/crosspost.
In life, the rules are not so clear-cut as in poker. Some play by the Bible, others by some high-falootin game theory approach, others with no rules, etc.
In poker the rules are well-defined and accessible. Only those sit down to play who voluntarily accept them. That doesn't mean you should automatically accept them yourself, but at least be aware that it's a very different situation than life in general.
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#5
10-06-2006, 02:57 PM
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Re: philosophy of poker/crosspost.
As long as youre not cheating and youre not forcing anybody to play then its not immoral for you to play.
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#6
10-06-2006, 03:32 PM
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Re: philosophy of poker/crosspost.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] since lying and manipulating is not good in qutidian life, how do you justify them in poker ? [/ QUOTE ] ...justify? I like money, and everyone else is using the same tactics. Part of the rules and understanding of poker is that everyone is using these tactics, and everyone knows everyone is using these tactics, and everyone knows everyone knows. By playing, you implicitly accept that others will be lying to, manipulating, and deceiving you. It is all out on the playing field. [/ QUOTE ] So how is this different from con artists and 3 card monte guys?
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#7
10-06-2006, 03:35 PM
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Re: philosophy of poker/crosspost.
[ QUOTE ]
In life, the rules are not so clear-cut as in poker. Some play by the Bible, others by some high-falootin game theory approach, others with no rules, etc. In poker the rules are well-defined and accessible. Only those sit down to play who voluntarily accept them. That doesn't mean you should automatically accept them yourself, but at least be aware that it's a very different situation than life in general. [/ QUOTE ] This is a good point. However, a significant part of your role as a winning player is devoted to obfuscating and muddling the opponents understanding of the situation, not JUST your play, but the rules of the game in general. Would you think it wrong if a person sold a piece of equipment that they knew to be faulty, without explicitly saying it was working, but simply omitting that fact, for the normal price to someone? Caveat emptor and all that, but if you were to clearly explain your skill edge and what is REALLY going to be happening at the table for the next 6 hours, no one would sit and play with you. Edit: I just thought of a good example. How many times have you been at a poker table where, after a few hours, one of the players yells at you for folding all of the time, and raising whenever you play, and being a bully? The fact that his happens constantly implies strongly that, while the players perhaps understand the official rules to the game, they don't REALLY know what is happening. You can say this is their own damn fault, but if it weren't for this the game would be less profitable for you and you probably wouldn't play.
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#8
10-06-2006, 03:42 PM
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Re: philosophy of poker/crosspost.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] since lying and manipulating is not good in qutidian life, how do you justify them in poker ? [/ QUOTE ] ...justify? I like money, and everyone else is using the same tactics. Part of the rules and understanding of poker is that everyone is using these tactics, and everyone knows everyone is using these tactics, and everyone knows everyone knows. By playing, you implicitly accept that others will be lying to, manipulating, and deceiving you. It is all out on the playing field. [/ QUOTE ] So how is this different from con artists and 3 card monte guys? [/ QUOTE ] I'm relating this to poker- In poker, everyone has to follow rules. You can bluff, tell lies about what you had... but when its time to collect the pot there are strict rules governing who wins. Con Men and 3 card monte-- you cannot win. They are cheating.
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#9
10-06-2006, 03:52 PM
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Re: philosophy of poker/crosspost.
[ QUOTE ]
Caveat emptor and all that, but if you were to clearly explain your skill edge and what is REALLY going to be happening at the table for the next 6 hours, no one would sit and play with you. [/ QUOTE ] They already have numerous ways to find out what's really happening, most of which are free of charge. If I have an obligation to tell all losing poker players why they are losing and what to do about it, wouldn't all manufacturers of chocolate, ice cream and other unhealthy foods have similar obligations to tell their overweight customers that they are making a mistake in buying their products?
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#10
10-06-2006, 04:16 PM
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Re: philosophy of poker/crosspost.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] since lying and manipulating is not good in qutidian life, how do you justify them in poker ? [/ QUOTE ] ...justify? I like money, and everyone else is using the same tactics. Part of the rules and understanding of poker is that everyone is using these tactics, and everyone knows everyone is using these tactics, and everyone knows everyone knows. By playing, you implicitly accept that others will be lying to, manipulating, and deceiving you. It is all out on the playing field. [/ QUOTE ] So how is this different from con artists and 3 card monte guys? [/ QUOTE ] It isn't. What's to stop you from walking up to one, grabbinig him by the neck, and robbing him?
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