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#1
10-11-2006, 01:08 PM
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fold equity
1. say a tag open raises KT otb.
you have 22 in the bb and the flop is 3A4. if you check raise he will fold his KT. 2. now say that tag open raises 66 otb. you have J9 in the bb and the flop is KQ7. if you check raise he will fold his 66. does one of these examples illustrate the concept of fold equity better than the other? does one fully illustrate the concept while the other doesn't whatsover? 
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#2
10-11-2006, 01:16 PM
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Re: fold equity
Example 2 illustrates the concept better since you actually have the best hand in Example 1, so he isn't folding a better hand (something that he should do if you want to have folding equity, altough he is folding a decent draw here).
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#3
10-11-2006, 01:23 PM
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Re: fold equity
May this is a bit over my head but isn't this just a question if he folds or not?
I like to approach fold equity from a more basic angle: If an opponent is likely to fold 1 out of 5 times if you bet then 1/5th of the pot, the fold equity, belongs to you. If the pot is 5 bets or bigger a bet is then an automatic profit.
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#4
10-11-2006, 01:27 PM
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Re: fold equity
[ QUOTE ]
does one of these examples illustrate the concept of fold equity better than the other? [/ QUOTE ] I don't think either of these represents fold equity. In my understanding of what we mean by fold equity, Hero represents strength on an early street in order to get Villan to fold to a continuation move on a later street. Hero never represented anything in either hand, prior to c/r'ing the flop.
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#5
10-11-2006, 01:47 PM
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Re: fold equity
[ QUOTE ]
Example 2 illustrates the concept better since you actually have the best hand in Example 1, so he isn't folding a better hand (something that he should do if you want to have folding equity, altough he is folding a decent draw here). [/ QUOTE ] so you think #1 has nothing to do with fold equity [ QUOTE ] May this is a bit over my head but isn't this just a question if he folds or not? I like to approach fold equity from a more basic angle: If an opponent is likely to fold 1 out of 5 times if you bet then 1/5th of the pot, the fold equity, belongs to you. If the pot is 5 bets or bigger a bet is then an automatic profit. [/ QUOTE ] you think it doesn't matter what hands he folds. you think fold equity applies when you hold AA and the flop is AA2. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] does one of these examples illustrate the concept of fold equity better than the other? [/ QUOTE ] I don't think either of these represents fold equity. In my understanding of what we mean by fold equity, Hero represents strength on an early street in order to get Villan to fold to a continuation move on a later street. Hero never represented anything in either hand, prior to c/r'ing the flop. [/ QUOTE ] you're thinking along the lines of "buying fold equity," like maybe a preflop cap with JTs heads up. i think this is another issue altogether.
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#6
10-11-2006, 01:53 PM
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Re: fold equity
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] does one of these examples illustrate the concept of fold equity better than the other? [/ QUOTE ] I don't think either of these represents fold equity. In my understanding of what we mean by fold equity, Hero represents strength on an early street in order to get Villan to fold to a continuation move on a later street. Hero never represented anything in either hand, prior to c/r'ing the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I like Hero raises on the button with T9s. BB calls with KQ (or 66 if you want him to have a made hand). Flop of A43. Hero bets out and BB folds. Since Hero represented strength preflop, he has good fold equity if BB doesn't have an ace, although it's similar to your first example.
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#7
10-11-2006, 01:53 PM
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Re: fold equity
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] May this is a bit over my head but isn't this just a question if he folds or not? I like to approach fold equity from a more basic angle: If an opponent is likely to fold 1 out of 5 times if you bet then 1/5th of the pot, the fold equity, belongs to you. If the pot is 5 bets or bigger a bet is then an automatic profit. [/ QUOTE ] you think it doesn't matter what hands he folds. you think fold equity applies when you hold AA and the flop is AA2. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I don't. What I was pointing out is that the concept of fold equity only makes sense in terms of chances that opponent folds vs. pot size. If someone folds 100% to my bet my fold equity is the whole pot and I don't need the concept of fold equity for that.
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#8
10-11-2006, 02:03 PM
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Re: fold equity
[ QUOTE ]
so you think #1 has nothing to do with fold equity [/ QUOTE ] No, obviously it has to do something with foldequity. You bet on a Axx flop and because villain doesn't have a pair or Ace he thinks that he can't draw to a pair, while they are both still very live: so yes it has to do with folding equity. The reason i'm saying that example two is a better example is the fact that here villian makes the mistake of folding a better hand, while in the first example the mistake is only folding a marginal draw.
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#9
10-11-2006, 02:31 PM
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Re: fold equity
[ QUOTE ]
he isn't folding a better hand (something that he should do if you want to have folding equity [/ QUOTE ] this is why i said what i said about your thoughts on #1.
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#10
10-11-2006, 02:36 PM
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Re: fold equity
Both have fold equity against a TAG, but the hands are face up. In the dark, you have to look at a range that villain opens with, then see how that range fits those boards vs your hands.
Buzz
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