Correct play on flush draw? Or just really bad?

Groendal · #1 09-21-2006, 10:11 AM

I figured I'd limp if one person called his raise. SB did, and therefor i called. No reads, as it was the seventh hand.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 6 folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, SB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

davelin · #2 09-21-2006, 10:18 AM

I'd still fold this pre-flop. The 3-bet on the flop is marginal if everyone calls, a disaster if UTG decides to cap and SB folds. Not sure about your turn bet.

Edit - I changed my mind, I don't like your turn bet.

DrModern · #3 09-21-2006, 10:22 AM

Fold preflop.

Don't 3-jack this on the flop.

I'll say tenatively that I think the turn bet is good.

Groendal · #4 09-21-2006, 10:25 AM

Would you call if 1 or 2 more people were in the pot?

jrz1972 · #5 09-21-2006, 10:26 AM

I fold preflop, but whatever. It's not egregious.

I would just call the flop, but again it's not a big deal either way.

The turn bet is spewy. Nobody is folding after the flop action and you're almost certainly behind. I doubt both opponents were betting draws on the flop.

Smoke em' · #6 09-21-2006, 10:30 AM

Grunch

Fold preflop, there are not nearly enough people in this hand to give you the implied odds to play this.

The flop 3-bet is pure spew, what are you hoping to accomplish? You're not folding anybody, all your reraise accomplishes is building a bigger pot for whomever goes on to win.

I also don't like the turn bet, I think we're too far behind most of the time for that to have any value.

Groendal · #7 09-21-2006, 10:32 AM

So it isnt correct to build the pot on a flush draw?

DrModern · #8 09-21-2006, 10:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]

The flop 3-bet is pure spew, what are you hoping to accomplish? You're not folding anybody, all your reraise accomplishes is building a bigger pot for whomever goes on to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the flop 3-bet is bad, but this is not the reason why.

The flop 3-bet actually becomes worse if someone folds.

Groendal · #9 09-21-2006, 10:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The flop 3-bet is pure spew, what are you hoping to accomplish? You're not folding anybody, all your reraise accomplishes is building a bigger pot for whomever goes on to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the flop 3-bet is bad, but this is not the reason why.

The flop 3-bet actually becomes worse if someone folds.

[/ QUOTE ]
But how can they possibly fold to my three bet? They already have two bets in there both of them. If they call a re raise, they sure call a three bet to. This isnt 5/10.

DrModern · #10 09-21-2006, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The flop 3-bet is pure spew, what are you hoping to accomplish? You're not folding anybody, all your reraise accomplishes is building a bigger pot for whomever goes on to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the flop 3-bet is bad, but this is not the reason why.

The flop 3-bet actually becomes worse if someone folds.

[/ QUOTE ]
But how can they possibly fold to my three bet? They already have two bets in there both of them. If they call a re raise, they sure call a three bet to. This isnt 5/10.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure you understood my point.

As for your remark "So it's not correct to build pots on flush draws," the answer is: it depends on the situation. Sometimes buildiing a pot on a flush draw (e.g. when you have many opponents likely to call your bet) is an excellent idea; sometimes it is not. You have to consider the number of opponents, how likely each is to call your bet, and how likely your draw is to win.