88 PFR, flops A rainbow

[knockonwood]

Ok, what do i do here? No proper reads on MP2. My guess is that he's cc'ing PF with AK, AQ, maaybe AJ. Is the flop raise a spew? The turn fold too weak?

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

[DrModern]

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No proper reads on MP2. My guess is that he's cc'ing PF with AK, AQ, maybe AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

His range is def. way wider than this.

That said, I think I just fold the flop.

[tyler_cracker]

[ QUOTE ]
just fold the flop.

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[Sarge85]

I don't think its terrible. Depending on what you've been doing the hands before, people may lead into you with a ride range of hands if your tighty tighty, or the opposite being overly Laggy -

If you've been playing a "proper" range of hands though - you might consider dumping it on the flop though.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[Oranzith]

4 players? i say someone has an A and isnt budging

[OziBattler]

unless BB has proven to be an idiot, I assume he as connected with the board here and its usually an ace, ragged two pair or a set on that board.

yes, I hate these donk bets that come out of the blinds when theres an overcard on the board to my PP. Ive tried raising many times like you did and encounter the same line by villian over and over again...ie donk/call and donk the turn. They always seem to have the a decent hand. Sure you might slow someone else with an ace down but you wont stop them. Most people arent capable of folding split aces with a weak kicker at 0.5/1

just fold the flop. as played, on the turn the question to ask is "do I want to pay 2BB to see this to SD?"

you might only get paid off 1BB if BB finally gives up his bluff and check/folds the river.

FWIW when I find myself thinking "man, folding here seems like such a weak assed move" I remind myself that THEY cant see my cards and because Im an aggresive SOB that Im quite capable of raising many hands when opening from MP...Ill let them think Im folding K10s or some other hand that totally wiffed....well it works for me.

[MN_Mime]

*grunch*

There's a lot here I'm concerned about.

First, I used to raise middle pairs in EP, but found it caused too many problems for me and MP1 is still a little early for me to be raising 88. For the most part, you're not going to be able to isolate the field from early positions with a raise and when you do it's going to be against several hands that are coin flips or even an overpair. Each competitor is taking your outs away from you (overcard blanks). Still, this is a style thing.

Second, your MP2 range is peculiar. If MP2 is good, you're NEVER against AK here as he'd have 3-bet. AQo, KQs, KQo, AJo, KJs, middle pairs is pretty much the range for a good CC. Clearly, he doesn't have an ace when you raise the flop and he folds.

Third, please provide reads on all players in the hand, not just villain. It's important to consider their holdings and how they might play back.

Lastly, I like the postflop play, including the turn fold. There's no reason to put BB on an ace on the flop since he just completed the blind and the hand is pretty drawless. When SB cold calls two, though, you're behind one or both of them. Folding when BB leads again is fine without a read.

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW when I find myself thinking "man, folding here seems like such a weak assed move" I remind myself that THEY cant see my cards and because Im an aggresive SOB that Im quite capable of raising many hands when opening from MP...Ill let them think Im folding K10s or some other hand that totally wiffed....well it works for me.

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And it also keeps them calling when you come out with your c-bet after your AQs spikes an A on the board.

[CrMenace]

*grunch*

When BB bets into three people after you've shown aggression pre-flop, I think it is time to walk away from 88.

[Absolution]

I fold the flop if BB is straight forward, otherwise I play it the same as you. I think he has aces up on the turn.