Please cure my friend.

gimmetheloot · #1 08-31-2006, 04:03 PM

He has a serious case of stupidity.

Here is the situation...He is UTG w/ about 50 left in PKR 20k guaranteed w/ KK. He has ~3500 chips and the blinds are 400/800. He limps. c/k folds to a 2400 pot to a bet w/ an A on flop.

I will let him try to defend his play to you guys. I have tried my best to tell him why it is wrong, but I play cash-games and am sure you guys can do it better than I. Please rip him a new one.

TFGoose · #2 08-31-2006, 04:09 PM

Unless the table has shown an extreme propensity for raising limpers pre-flop, this is an egregious error. In fact, even if they have been raising, the fact that he limps up front for a quarter of his stack should send some warning signals.

Just push PF and hope you get called. If you just get the blinds, at least you get another rotation to find another sitation to steal or get lucky with a hand.

--TFGoose

pokerchap · #3 08-31-2006, 04:13 PM

okay, friends. Pretty much every pot had gone PF with a raise. A high stack was about 3 seats past me and had raised the last few pots and taken most of them down. I expected him to bluff into the pot and try to take it down PF but when i raised all in he would call with crap because it would be about 2k more to him in a large pot.

The whole point of this "terrible" limp was to win more than double postflop too if the preflop went without a raise. I was willing to take the chance of an ace not flopping. Mr. "give me the loot" says that i had to be worried about some one outflopping me even if an ace doesn't flop? Isn't that ridiculous. The point is if an ace doesnt flop i am good pretty mcuh always. I would check flop when the ace didnt flop high stack with like 50k would bet 2k and some BB would call with mid pair? i would push and they would both call with top/mid/ EVEN BOTTOM IN THIS DONKFEST and i quad up.

pokerchap · #4 08-31-2006, 04:18 PM

i understand i am trying to be pretty but i think it is obviously more profitable

gimmetheloot · #5 08-31-2006, 04:19 PM

Not that you need to be worried about being outflopped. Your whole arguement is that you will get called postflop by some retard hand. If this is true, you will get called pf by some retard hand as well. The only difference is, is that if you limp, and 2-3 other limp as well, you are giving the whole field as much of a chance to bust your kings as possible, when it should be easy to get it in PF as a 7:3 fav at worst, and only be facing one opponent, rather than make a less than PSB on who knows what flop and get called by 1 guy with a pair and one guy with some sort of draw.

Also, All, is a shortie limping UTG not a very, very transparent play?

pokerchap · #6 08-31-2006, 04:21 PM

NO THIS IS NOT MY ARGUMENT. my arugment is when some one takes a stab it postflop they will be pot committed and call with nothing. i am not saying they will call with nothing, only when they have committed lots of chips.

seke2 · #7 08-31-2006, 04:28 PM

Limping KK in general is really bad.

Limping KK with 4 BB's left is really bad.

Someone with 4 BB's limping UTG is a good way to ensure that the pot won't get raised preflop unless someone has a strong hand, and if they did, they would call your push anyway, and you're probably ahead of them anyway.

Folding the flop when you already put 25% of your stack in preflop and you're going to be in the BB on the next hand for 33% of your stack with a random hand is worse.

Pushing preflop is the obvious play here, or limping and getting the rest in on any flop, even an ace-high flop.

I'm with the OP. Limping isn't the worst thing ever, but limping and folding the flop is pretty bad. Once you do this, you have 2700 left and have to post 1200 of that in the next 2 hands. Wouldn't you rather just push KK preflop and probably double up (or maybe even more, your push isn't that big of a bet and could be called in more than one spot) as opposed to folding the flop 25% of the time when an ace flops, and losing to a garbage hand that would have certainly folded preflop some other percent of the time?

gimmetheloot · #8 08-31-2006, 04:33 PM

Seke, you say you are with Chap on this, but your WHOLE post contradicts that.

seke2 · #9 08-31-2006, 04:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Seke, you say you are with Chap on this, but your WHOLE post contradicts that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, got your screennames mixed up. I'm with the OP. Whoever you are.

pokerchap · #10 08-31-2006, 04:37 PM

the only reason i think this is correct is beacuse doubling up isnt enough here. i need more chips to have any chance at placing.