Was I justified or out of line

[Reckless1der]

OK, second level of a home tourney, 8 players remain at my table. Effective stacks still 5,000 +/- 500, blinds 50/ 100. UTG limps, folded to me in the cut-off where I find KhQh. I pop it to 300, folds to BB who calls, and UTG calls.

So we go 3ways to the flop with 950 in the pot. Flop comes K83 with 2 spades. Check, check, and I bet 700. BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn is the 3d and UTG checks again. I'm fairly certain MHIG and I pot it by betting 2350. I guess I could have tried to extract value but at the time I just wanted to put it away and move on to the next hand. My best guess was that he was on a flush draw. Surprisingly, he gets sticky and calls again.

River comes the Ac, so final board is K833A rainbow and UTG smugly donks 500, WTF? "ChitDamMuthaFut". There's like zero chance this is a bluff, but 500 into a 7550 pot is an autocall so I do.

He waves the Ad, and I nod and say "Table it" and open my KhQh. I paid for a call and wanted to see his hand, since he didn't have the As, I wanted to see why he was chasing. But I guess as well as being a donkey, he's hard of hearing too and he throws his hand into the muck and reaches out to sweep in the pot. I say "Wait a second, I win” and everyone looks at me like I'm crazy. "He mucked, I have the only live hand, I win." Now I know in a real cardroom, I'm getting the pot here, and I do have an allie that agrees, but 3 or 4 guys come to his aide and say "He had an Ace, we all saw it". I break out Robert's and make them read how this is my pot, incidentally Robert's is specifically incorporated as the house rules. Still they are insisting I'm being an ass and violating the "Spirit of the Home Game."

They ask me why I'm being an ass and I tell them I called 500 to see what he was chasing me down with, so he retrieves the Ad4s out of the muck, OK here you go. So his allies think that everything is settled and start pushing the rest of the pot to him. So I start yelling at this point and call UTG a stupideffingidiot so then he shoves he's whole stack across the table and storms out in a huff.

I went on to win the tourney, but it was a very somber atmosphere, and 2 days later it seems at least half of the 16 players are pissed at me.

I know I shouldn't have raised my voice, called him names and swore so that was all bad, and I have even come to the realization I should have just sucked up the loss and tossed my hand into the muck when I saw I was beat. But what I'm wondering is, was I really that far out of line when I am technically right by the rules?

[garcia1000]

Hi sir,

This looks like an angle shoot to me. I would not like to play with such a player in my game.

Thanks.

[scpi10]

As long as your game uses Robert's rules as the official rules you're right and should have been awarded the pot. That being said, I would have let it go, he showed the A, gave him the pot but explained for anyone who didn't know you need to show both cards at the showdown.

[Rottersod]

If you really just wanted to see his hand you could have insisted he retrieve the cards. Don't try and pull this kind of stuff at a home game unless you are playing for serious cash and it isn't with friends.

[pismeyer]

Quit being a nit, you saw the ace and so did a few other players. It's a home game (regardless of stakes) and you must know the majority of these guys to some extent. Why frazzle friendships over something like this?

P

[KampfHase]

Hi there [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Robert says:
"1. To win any part of a pot, a player must show all of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not."

Additionally:
"5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins."

So, I totally agree with you [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

However, if you insist on a certain ruling on a justified ground (such as, an agreement among friends, or RRoP), try to keep it objective. There was no need to call the guy nasty names.

Btw, did you talk about RRoP with the group? It seems as if the guy wasn't aware that this rule exists.
It is very important (especially among friends) to study the rules together, so that there won't be any uncomfortable situation, or surprises when a ruling has to be made which costs the guy who was wrong the pot.

Just as a side note, I am sick of this "Hey, we r buds and it's a home game, so relax..."!!! There are rules in every game that are to be met to provide for a fair game and a comfortable atmosphere. If everybody sticks to the rules there won't be any quarrels about it. Of course you will have to vote on each rule individually in a home game whether this or that rule should be used or not. Robert's provides a well thought ground on which rules can be selected etc.
My experience tells me that quarrels always arise if there was no ruling determined in advance, or if someone didn't read the acknowledged rules thoroughly. In your case, this guy "mucked" his right to claim the pot by throwing one card away, because he wasn't aware of this rule. So, he's wrong, not you. (You are of course wrong in calling him nasty names; you said so yourself.)

I constantly run into quarrels myself with some of my buds, because they do not read the rules, or do not even care about them. This sucks. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[H0neyM0nster]

You may be technically correct - but you were out of line to be so anal. A simple - "I paid to see your other card" - would have done - not....I WON - I WON - I WON....

Personally, I would give you the choice...let common sense prevail (What do you expect playing KQ against people who don't even know the rules?) and carry on with everyone playing OR give you the pot you demand and never invite your hostile-arse ever again.

I'm all for home games being played within known rules but it is scenes like this that destroy them.

[NickMPK]

At the very least, you should have given up your claim to the pot once he retrieved his hand and showed it to you. You wanted to see what he was playing, as was your right, and you saw it. Now drop the ridiculous rules-lawyering.

[Khabbi]

Out of Line.

Don't be surprised when you don't get invited back.

[flatline]

[ QUOTE ]
Out of Line.

Don't be surprised when you don't get invited back.

[/ QUOTE ]