Fun w/ KK

The Dude · #1 08-05-2006, 01:55 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed)
SB is unknown, BB is 52/19 after 36 hands, MP is 49/4.1 after 50 hands.

Preflop: The Dude is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, The Dude raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, MP calls, The Dude caps, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB raises, MP calls, The Dude calls, Button folds, SB 3-bets, BB caps, MP calls, The Dude calls, SB calls.

Turn: (18 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, The Dude checks.

River: (18 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP folds, The Dude calls, SB calls.

Comments?

Oracle · #2 08-05-2006, 01:59 AM

What are your reasons for not 3 betting the flop? I think the hand plays much easier after that.

sharpie · #3 08-05-2006, 02:00 AM

I'd just 3 bet the flop. Pot's already too big to consider waiting for the turn IMO, and it might get checked to us on the turn anyway.

Must bet the turn. I'd be very suprised if someone had a flush, and SB has a lower pocket pair way more often than AA.

MacGuyV · #4 08-05-2006, 02:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What are your reasons for not 3 betting the flop? I think the hand plays much easier after that.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does it play easier?

The Dude · #5 08-05-2006, 02:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What are your reasons for not 3 betting the flop? I think the hand plays much easier after that.

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Sure, by making the pot so big I can't possibly fold it's much easier to play the hand, but that doesn't make it better.

Oracle · #6 08-05-2006, 04:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What are your reasons for not 3 betting the flop? I think the hand plays much easier after that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, by making the pot so big I can't possibly fold it's much easier to play the hand, but that doesn't make it better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think calling is going to make the pot even bigger. Making it two back to the SB may fold him. Calling is really just bloating the pot and giving anybody with any outs odds to call. It's a tough spot but I think calling < raising unless you want to fold it right here.

milesdyson · #7 08-05-2006, 05:04 AM

so 3-betting is going to fold a guy who would otherwise be willing to 3-bet himself... this happens like exceptionally never and only when said person is a very good hand reader and trusts you.

Oracle · #8 08-05-2006, 05:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
so 3-betting is going to fold a guy who would otherwise be willing to 3-bet himself... this happens like exceptionally never and only when said person is a very good hand reader and trusts you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously we can't know he's willing to 3bet. I think raising is the lesser of two evils. What do you suggest?

milesdyson · #9 08-05-2006, 05:52 AM

the reason for me making my post is you saying "calling is going to make the pot even bigger."

this is hardly ever true.

i like a flop 3-bet simply because i believe it is +ev and "waiting until the turn" is losing it's luster in games where people go nutso on the flop with draws but realize they should check the turn if they miss, thus making your "waiting to raise" actually "waiting until they hit to raise"

Pog0 · #10 08-05-2006, 05:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so 3-betting is going to fold a guy who would otherwise be willing to 3-bet himself... this happens like exceptionally never and only when said person is a very good hand reader and trusts you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously we can't know he's willing to 3bet. I think raising is the lesser of two evils. What do you suggest?

[/ QUOTE ]

Miles actually has a point here. Yes, we don't know he's going to 3-bet, but when he has a hand he's willing to 3-bet, then we'll never fold him with our 3-bet.

If he's willing to fold to our 3-bet, then his hand has low to no outs anyway and we gain nothing from that fold.

I like 3-betting the flop strictly for value.