Dealers, pls read + respond, others post opinions as well

[Photoc]

Ok, I feel a little ranty, but want to have a good discussion on this. Ok, everyone on here knows that I'm a dealer. As for where, I keep it on the down lo thanks to some underhandedness by certain individuals with some creative copy/paste emails to my boss. It got sorted out when I showed my boss the actual posts.

Ok, on to the meat and potatoes.

I was playing in a very good NL game tonight at a local casino here in Vegas. The dealing tonight that I saw had to be some of the worst (procedure wise) that I've ever seen, and this is a very nice room too.

Things that got my attention:
1. ROLLING the deck over to fix chips, drag cards in, or just plain laziness. DONT DO IT! I want to see the top of that deck at all times. And stop holding it on the side like a BJ dealer.
2. When there is a sidepot on the flop or turn, bring in the main pot, setup the side pot. All night I watched dealers leave 3 and 4 players bets on the tables when up to

2 players were all in at different times. One had to call a floor to get it sorted out. None of that "I'll count it at the end". That is for heads up ONLY!

3. Stop playing in the rack. Go in one time for the change you need, sometimes 2 if needed. How many times do you need to fix those $40 in 1's that are there. Pay attention to the game. And we dont need quarters drowning the pot in a NL game that every pot is $50+.

4. When a player mucks a hand, do NOT pick it up, do NO put it on TOP of the muck. I saw a TON of exposed cards all night thanks to dealers constantly picking up the cards. Those cards are to be SLID into the muck, not on top, INTO IT.

5. (goes with 3 and 4) Stop squaring up the deck, muck,and burn cards as soon as you deal the river card. Once again, saw dealers lose track of the action because of this. There should be 3 separate piles when done. Up to 3 burn cards, the spread deck with cut card, and the muck, not a neat pile of a squared off deck before the action is even complete. How is a floor supposed to fix any problems if they can't tell wtf just happened?

6. Do NOT fix your own mistakes. Call a floor, it's their job to make the decisions. Enough said on that one.

7. Make sure players have their cards visible at all times. TOo many players keeping their cards next to or behind their stacks and others have to ask if they have cards. They should be out front of the chips so everyone knows whats going on.

8. In NL when heads up only, one players says ALL IN or pushes all their chips in and another players says call, you dont have to bring in every single chip they have before you can finish dealing the board. This is the time you can figure out the pot after the hand is complete. This is a time saver a toke maker.

If Capone were there, he'd been doing a lot of nut kicking. Me, I had a long conversation with the floor on duty. He knows what I do for a living and thanked me very much for the help. I will NEVEr say anything to a dealer in that NIT fashion. Id' rather piss off them NITS [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] I just like to see the games run properly when my own $$$ is on the table as well as others.

[juanez]

Great post. All of your recommendations are from Into to Dealing 101. There's no excuse for dealers doing these things.

Rolling the deck and picking up mucked cards are huge pet peeves for me personally. Just SLOPPY....

[bigfishead]

I've made the same statements for years. When I started in this business 2 things would get you fired real quick.

1 Rolling the deck.
2 Elbows on the table. You didnt mention this one. But slouched over all nice and relaxed lazy like, costs money. Looks terrible.

All the things you mention I have tried to help other dealers with before.

Recently I was playing where I work. After going thru an excrutiating 1/2 hr with 1 dealer I grabbed him on a break. He's new, I knew it. Less than 6 months in the biz, and got juiced into Bellagio. I asked him if he wanted to make more money and improve his dealing skills. He said "sure you bet". i told hom about just those two items, rolling the deck and elbows on the table. Less than 1 week later I see the same old shiit. Some just dont "get it" or they "know better" than the ones that have come before them.

[psandman]

Although the rolling the deck thing doesn't seem to be limited to new dealers, in fact in my experience it seems to be the older more experienced dealers who are guilty of this most often (perhaps they figure they can get away with it).

[FCBLComish]

Excellent post, I agree 100% with everything you stated. It seems that there are 2 issues happening today to account for this:

1) The explosion of poker has brought in thousands of new dealers, some of whom may actually have been properly trained.

2) The "art" of dealing seems to be fading. When I broke into the casino business in 1984, dealers actually cared enough to try to perfect their craft. Dealers today seem to just not care enough about "looking smooth" and following procedures. This could be a trend throughout the entire civilization as "work ethic" seems to be a dying value.

I tend to toke more to better dealers, and toke less to those who do not take their craft seriously. Then again, a good nut kicking is never out of the question.

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
Although the rolling the deck thing doesn't seem to be limited to new dealers, in fact in my experience it seems to be the older more experienced dealers who are guilty of this most often (perhaps they figure they can get away with it).

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont even try with the "older more experienced". I just shake my head. I didnt mean to infer it was limited to newbies.

[Don Olney]

Good stuff guy----now here is 2 more cents----or 5 is I have scotch
1. STOP CALLING HANDS --- dealers this is just bad bad bad---
2. STOP SAYING---- I KNEW HE HAD YOU BEAT again BAD BAD BAD
3. STOP SAYING --THE PRICE OF POKER JUST WENT UP---it is so much better to say there has been a raise or it is XX amount to go--
4. If the game is being played by people wanting to PLAY POKER--justSHUT UP AND DEAL -- if it is a FUN FEST and everyone is having a great time--then break out a few jokes, interact with the table a little--the TIPS WILL FOLLOW. you can bank on that one--
5. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE counting your tray down while dealing,,, there is no need to stop the game to do this---
6. When a player breaks out a bill, call for chips RIGHT THEN -- get the bill off the table--I WANT TO SEE THE GUY WITH CHIPS not a bill---
7. IF all else fails--I know a dealer here in Vegas that is starting a DEALER SCHOOL--he must be good, he tells everyone he is, I could getyou in to hone up on your skills---

SCOTCH TABLE 7 please---

[NoRiverRats]

Great post - in fact these issues become even more important with so many new people starting to play poker. When I first started to visit Vegas regularly in 2000, there wasn't much choice for poker, we basically played at Bellagio and Mirage(didn't go downtown to play), by and large the dealers were experienced and quite good, which was incredibly important to us, since we were new to poker, not just B&M poker.

Good dealers make the game easier for newbies, helps them keep pace and keep the nits from "nitting" them to death. Indeed, a good dealer helps inspire confidence among newbies with the mechanics of the game, (what to do with your cards, how and when to bet etc..) which is critically important because newbies may not have much confidence in how well they play the game.

I think you could even argue that a good dealer helps keep some newbies at the table, which means us old farts should better appreciate a job well done and tip accordingly. Likewise though, we should take note of poor dealers. Any ideas from posters here what we should do when we run into what Photoc describes?

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
5. (goes with 3 and 4) Stop squaring up the deck, muck,and burn cards as soon as you deal the river card. Once again, saw dealers lose track of the action because of this. There should be 3 separate piles when done. Up to 3 burn cards, the spread deck with cut card, and the muck, not a neat pile of a squared off deck before the action is even complete. How is a floor supposed to fix any problems if they can't tell wtf just happened?

[/ QUOTE ]

Overall great post, but I am going to take issue with one thing you said here. There are a lot of places that want you to spread the deck when you are done with it , and you should if the hand goes to the river. If the hand ends before the river is dealt the deck should be mucked so the top card is unidentifiable to make "rabbit hunting" impossible. I have seen a lot of newer places (more often in the east than in the west) say to leave the stub.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
1. ROLLING the deck over to fix chips, drag cards in, or just plain laziness. DONT DO IT! I want to see the top of that deck at all times. And stop holding it on the side like a BJ dealer.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you! Someone who understands the PAIN of having to watch a deck rolling like a 19th century whaling ship off cape horn in a storm, gutwrenching and vomitous! KEEP THE DAMN DECK PARALLEL ALREADY. Oh yeah, and THIS AIN'T THE PIT, so hold the deck LIKE A POKER DEALER!!!

And as for bringing in, or leaving out the bets, you are damn straight, it's for HEADS UP ONLY. When there are more than one players involved, it's asking for DISASTER by not bringing in the bets LIKE A GOOD BOY.

It does seem like rack handling and proper management of chips and change is rapidly becoming a LOST ART. Or maybe all you newbies ought to figure it the frig' out after doing it over and over, every day for months and months. One big problem I think with newbie dealers is that they get used to just dealing as a way to "get tips," and don't bother to try to improve their skills much, since the money is usually so much better than the last thing they did (which paid diddly).

[ QUOTE ]
4. When a player mucks a hand, do NOT pick it up, do NO put it on TOP of the muck. I saw a TON of exposed cards all night thanks to dealers constantly picking up the cards. Those cards are to be SLID into the muck, not on top, INTO IT.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hellew!! Wham! In the NUTS! It just BUGS me when people pick up the mucked hands. I spent a lot of time when I was a newbie learning how to properly arrange the flop, burns, pot and discards so that I would be able to properly bring in mucked hands from EITHER SIDE without picking them up OR rolling the deck.

[ QUOTE ]
5. (goes with 3 and 4) Stop squaring up the deck, muck,and burn cards as soon as you deal the river card. Once again, saw dealers lose track of the action because of this. There should be 3 separate piles when done. Up to 3 burn cards, the spread deck with cut card, and the muck, not a neat pile of a squared off deck before the action is even complete. How is a floor supposed to fix any problems if they can't tell wtf just happened?


[/ QUOTE ]

Holy cow batman, what a novel concept! Doing things THE RIGHT WAY!!! My foot is going to be sore!! Making a giant pile as soon as the river card is dealt is a recipe for a giant pile of DOG DOO, i.e. a crappy mess. There will be time to collect all the cards, and it WON'T take extra time, you just need to wait till you're damn sure that everything on the river is kosher before you make a mess of the muck, stub, and burns.

I'm going to interject one of my own here...

COUNT THE DAMN STUB ALREADY. Nothing like being on the floor when there's a huge no limit pot with lots of drunks and all-ins and a couple nits to boot, when the SECOND THREE OF CLUBS HITS THE RIVER!!!! Floor? Who's that? I'm just the janitor! Don't let the tie fool ya! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
6. Do NOT fix your own mistakes. Call a floor, it's their job to make the decisions. Enough said on that one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy cow Batman, this is a MAJOR nut-kicking in my book!!! It's also a recipe for an even bigger disaster than previously ranted about in this post so far!!!!

[ QUOTE ]
7. Make sure players have their cards visible at all times. TOo many players keeping their cards next to or behind their stacks and others have to ask if they have cards. They should be out front of the chips so everyone knows whats going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

A novel idea that would sure avoid a lot of problems, particularly the BURN AND TURN TOO EARLY phenomenon!!! Not to mention the acting out of turn phenomenon!!! Gee, seems like you could either...

A) kill two birds with one stone, by making players keep their cards visible, or...

B) GET KICKED IN THE NUTS!!!

Good post buddy! I'm going to go soak my feet while I have a beer! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

al