5/10 -- Two river decisions

[Caddy_4_Life]

Hand 1:
MP is your typical TAG.
SB is 53VPIP/15PFR/1.0AF-TOT/49WTSD/75HANDS seen him flop donk a hand with a pair once and another hand flop donk an OESD and hit it on the turn and continued betting.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (7 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

No draws came in on the river so I thought getting 9:1 and executing a free card play on the turn, I had a call here.

Hand 2:
I was new to this table so no established reads.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero does what?

I probably have the best hand on the river but having the best hand if called is the real dilemma. Betting into an Ace is even EV or -EV. Betting into a 5x is -EV.

I think a check/call can pick off bluff attempts from missed draws enough times to make it the superior play.

-Caddy

[Bicker]

Hand1: I'm a bit unclear on this one. What was the point of the raise on the flop? Were you representing a flush draw or a 9? Doesn't seem like you have enough players in for a raise for a flush draw, so a 9 is the more likely choice. Then when another 9 hits, you don't bet? On the river, SB bets out. You have King high and he likes something here. What's the call for?

Hand2: Again, I'm confused (may speak to my lack of 5/10 play). You raised that flop and two called you. You bet out again on the turn and two called you. I'd be figuring that one of them has an A or a 5 and that I'm beat.

[True]

I would bet the turn in hand 1. As played I would fold the river.

Hand 2 I don't think I would raise the flop as you are closing the action. The reason for this is you gain information on the turn. With 2 players in it's hard to imagine that you have great equity on this flop.

True

[cfjr2]

hand 1 - you lose to any pair any A - I probably fold

hand 2 - I think betting into an A is -EV as the only A you beat is...none. You split every Ax out there where x&lt;5 or lose to all others. Check / call.

[Low Limit Loser]

Hand 1 has an error in it. It says 3 players on turn and river but there are only 2 visible. With two players, I bet the turn again. If I bet the turn, I am folding to a river bet and checking behind if he doesn't. with 3 players, I take the free card and fold the river to a bet.

Hand 2. UGH, don't raise the flop. If you want to be tricky, donk/fold the turn instead.

Check/call the river if it is HU by that point. check fold if there is an overcall.

[Caddy_4_Life]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 has an error in it. It says 3 players on turn and river but there are only 2 visible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed it.

-Caddy

[Bob Sacamano]

Absolutely no clue why you raised the flop in Hand 2. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Caddy_4_Life]

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2. UGH, don't raise the flop. If you want to be tricky, donk/fold the turn instead.


[/ QUOTE ]

My problem with this type of hand is I always see a bet on the flop with any hand from one of these two opponents who are trying to pick up the pot, and most loose opponents are willing to call that bet with 1-2 overcards or a FD. I honestly didn't expect it to get to the river as I thought I'd get them both to fold to the turn bet or I'd be folding to a turn raise. I wanted to get my money in on the flop where I knew I had an edge and everyone was pot committed.

My plan on the river was to call one player, not two. No overcalling obv.

-Caddy

[Caddy_4_Life]

True, unraised pf, SB,BB,limping UTG in, I probably do have an equity edge. I see this hand go by so many times with me betting the turn and them both folding. I wanted to get their money in on the flop. And I do think it still serves the purpose of information gathering. We'll often see fireworks on the turn when I'm well behind.

-Caddy

[MacGuyV]

First hand I like flop &amp; turn, fold the river.
Second hand I also don't like the flop play. I think the river is a bet as played, though I'd expect to lose. You're almost never picking off a bluff here the way the hand played out and you just get valuebet to death when you check/call.