Facing a CR on a paired board

[grafyx]

I start this hand top 10 in chips in the 55k.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t400/t800
(Ante: t50)
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: t69768
UTG+1: t13662
MP1: t45540
MP2: t20678
CO: t7466
Button: t21795
SB: t55405
BB: t46870

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t2000</font>, 6 folds, BB calls t1200 <font color="#aaaaaa">(pot was t3200)</font>.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t4800, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets t3200</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to t10400</font>, Hero calls t7200 <font color="#aaaaaa">(pot was t18400)</font>.

Ok so a Jack is a more likely holding for villian than something like a 2, however I'm not sure I'm ready to fold an overpair just yet. I think he could make htis move with a smaller pair than QQ, maybe a flush draw or just a bluff.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t25600, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets t10400</font>, Hero calls t10400 <font color="#aaaaaa">(pot was t36000)</font>.

His bet here on the turn is somewhat small , but still a decent percentage of my stack. I call because I'm a calling station and thats what we do.

If he pushes the river, I guess I have to fold unless a spade or Q hits. If I'm checked to after a spade or Q I will make a value bet, anything else I check behind.

[nath]

See, THIS is why I check the flop so much in these spots. You're just guessing now.

[ QUOTE ]
See, THIS is why I check the flop so much in these spots. You're just guessing now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I'm not sure I'm convinced.

Checking on the flop, IMO, will seems to lead to so many more problems than betting it will. If you had AA or KK, then I would agree with you. Would like to discuss this though. For instance, if you check behind on the flop, and an A or K peels on the turn and he leads for 2/3 pot, do you fold? Betting the flop also allows you check behind on the turn, keeping the pot small while potentially extracting more value from hands like 33-TT.

grafyx -

Your play seems pretty fine to me. Often times your call on the flop will freeze him if you are ahead, so you will only have to pay that one bet to find out. I agree you have to call the smallish turn bet given that you have the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Without the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], I think this turn decision becomes a lot tougher, but I am leaning towards a fold.

[Soulman]

Please post results after any discussion is over. I think you'll see a lower PP more often than jacks here, trying to get you to fold your overcards on the flop. The spade on the turn might be enough to give a jack a pause, I'm with Kramer here. This is pretty tough...and I hate to not extract some value from lower PPs.

[registrar]

I'm check-calling turn and river. In response to Kramer, if villain is happy to bet an ace or king turn, then I'm probably happy to fold. I'm not sure what there is left that I am beating. If he's betting and underpair or AK after I've called the flop, well all kudos to the man's balls.

I don't see why checking here causes more problems.

[JFJB]

Agree with nath. You want to keep the pot small in such a situation. Just Check

i like this line. this looks much like a J playing a little scared of the turn card. and w/out the Qs, i think this is an easy fold.

[ QUOTE ]

I don't see why checking here causes more problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will often times lose more to a Jx hand because you failed to gain any info on the flop.

Also, obviously you allow Villain to pull ahead sometimes.

Third, you allow scare cards to come off that might lead to you making an incorrect fold.

Lastly, I think you lose value from a lot of hands like 77-TT.

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm check-calling turn and river. In response to Kramer, if villain is happy to bet an ace or king turn, then I'm probably happy to fold. I'm not sure what there is left that I am beating. If he's betting and underpair or AK after I've called the flop, well all kudos to the man's balls.

I don't see why checking here causes more problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I suppose http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...68#Post6510868

answers that question but I still think leading inflates a pot that you are then committed to over two more streets.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm check-calling turn and river.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have position in the hand.