20-40 flop decision

[Michael Davis]

5 handed pot involving three limpers and a late position LAG raiser and you in the SB with 66. All limpers play way too loose and way too passive, button is something of an aggressive retard.

Flop is K55 rainbow and it's checked to the button who bets, what's your play and plan?

-Michael

[thirddan]

ummmmmm...i would c/r and if a limper comes along i would c/f the turn...if the PFR 3bets im probably done as well...if PFR calls i would lead non AQ turn and fold to a raise...

[onegymrat]

I think a check-raise would normally suffice. This standard flop play would root out the king or five and dictate button's hand a bit better. But if the great Michael Davis posts a relatively simple hand like this, there must be much more to the hand that what is posted, so here's to a caffeine-jotted morning.

Being that it's a passive table, I'm guessing that even a flop c/r would not drive out any ace-highs or pp. At the same time, since the pf raiser is a nutso AND has the button, he could do all kinds of crap to fold you. This makes it a bit more complex. The keys are what the others will do after you and what the turn card is.

Nutso could have QJo or perhaps the grand old A-5o, you just don't know, so a headsup showdown with him is imminent and warranted. That leaves the three players in the middle with whom to contend. If this is a table where passivity means "check to the raiser" is standard, then you relatively get to act second.

The flop c/r will not work so call the flop bet and see the action behind you. Then on the turn, you must decide on whether to bet out or check-raise the button. With a non-face/ace card, a turn bet by you should clear out the riff-raff and root out five. But if everyone folds and button raises you, then that's another problem, and you would have to call down. However, if you are sure the button will bet again if checked to AND you have a relatively no-nonsense image, then check-raise the turn. I think this is worth the extra bet if you could fold a king in the field. If the turn c/r works and clears the field, and nutso 3-bets, then you can fold.

Then again, a 6 may come on the turn.

[I.Rowboat]

[ QUOTE ]
ummmmmm...i would c/r and if a limper comes along i would c/f the turn...if the PFR 3bets im probably done as well...if PFR calls i would lead non AQ turn and fold to a raise...

[/ QUOTE ]

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
if you could fold a king in the field.

[/ QUOTE ]
never.

[csuf_gambl0or]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a check-raise would normally suffice. This standard flop play would root out the king or five and dictate button's hand a bit better. But if the great Michael Davis posts a relatively simple hand like this, there must be much more to the hand that what is posted, so here's to a caffeine-jotted morning.

Being that it's a passive table, I'm guessing that even a flop c/r would not drive out any ace-highs or pp. At the same time, since the pf raiser is a nutso AND has the button, he could do all kinds of crap to fold you. This makes it a bit more complex. The keys are what the others will do after you and what the turn card is.

Nutso could have QJo or perhaps the grand old A-5o, you just don't know, so a headsup showdown with him is imminent and warranted. That leaves the three players in the middle with whom to contend. If this is a table where passivity means "check to the raiser" is standard, then you relatively get to act second.

The flop c/r will not work so call the flop bet and see the action behind you. Then on the turn, you must decide on whether to bet out or check-raise the button. With a non-face/ace card, a turn bet by you should clear out the riff-raff and root out five. But if everyone folds and button raises you, then that's another problem, and you would have to call down. However, if you are sure the button will bet again if checked to AND you have a relatively no-nonsense image, then check-raise the turn. I think this is worth the extra bet if you could fold a king in the field. If the turn c/r works and clears the field, and nutso 3-bets, then you can fold.

Then again, a 6 may come on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this.

[onegymrat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you could fold a king in the field.

[/ QUOTE ]never.

[/ QUOTE ]

[thirddan]

my main problem with waiting until the turn to do something is that our pair is sooo low...if we think we have the best hand we need to limit the field because pretty much any turn card could kill us if the field is large...if we just call we are allowing 98 or QT or whatever to see a cheap card getting good odds at their likely 6 outer...i think we need to decide on the flop if our hand is worth trying to win this pot, if so we need to raise, if not then we should probably just fold...

[onegymrat]

I agree with your comments but...[ QUOTE ]
I think a check-raise would normally suffice. This standard flop play would root out the king or five and dictate button's hand a bit better. But if the great Michael Davis posts a relatively simple hand like this, there must be much more to the hand that what is posted...

[/ QUOTE ]

[Joe Tall]

C/R'ing likely does nothing on any flop in this game and calling to find a comfortable turn card is the best option.