Home Game: What is the correct ruling?

Darth Poker · #1 06-14-2006, 04:50 PM

stack sizes, specific cards, and accurate bet amounts are unnecessary here.

a little background: we play a weekly NL hold'em game at one of our buddys' house, typically it's .25/.50 cash game with $10 min and $30 max buy-in, and occasionally there's a $20 NL tourney. Same cast of characters pretty much every week, between 6 and 9 people. Most are casual players, some have a clue but that's about it. It's a friendly game, but we play with casino rules so that everyone knows what's up beforehand and there's no arguing or "seat of the pants" decisions made. I am usually the "floor" - I'm the most serious player by far in the group and know the rules better/more than anyone else, and I was asked by everyone else to make sure the game is on the up and up. so last nite, I wasnt able to make the game. this info is from my best friend, a guy who I've known very well for more than 10 years and trust him with anything. Best friend is UTG in this story.

so, towards the end of the night this hand comes up: 4 people in the hand, UTG raises to $2, MP1 and Button call. Folds around to the BB, and the dealer deals the flop before the BB has a chance to act. People are yelling @ the dealer to stop, but BB sees the flop before dealer has a chance to flip them face down again. BB then calls the pre-flop raise, and re-raises. UTG and MP1 fold, and Button ends up calling the re-raise and the hand plays out - with UTG and MP1 arguing that BB's hand should be dead. BB and Button continue to play anyways, Button ends up losing most of his stack to BB.

Again, I was not there, and they didnt really know what to do - UTG and MP1 were contending that BB shouldnt have been allowed to continue in the hand, or the whole hand should be ruled dead and everyone gets their money back from the pot. BB insists that he's allowed to continue playing the hand, and Button is clueless and doesnt have an opinion.

what's the proper ruling here?

Gorby · #2 06-14-2006, 05:02 PM

Shuffle the cards back in, the burn and the flop that is. Unless of course the burn was exposed.

Richter · #3 06-14-2006, 05:20 PM

yep, the flop cards are shuffled back in (the burn card is not and remains face down) re-do the flop without burning. (burn card stays the same) Dealer error sucks but at least there is a chance of the same flop.

This is far more frequent in home games due to inexperience , alcohol, etc. but I have see this exact scenario in casino many times over the years.

Annorax · #4 06-14-2006, 05:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yep, the flop cards are shuffled back in (the burn card is not and remains face down) re-do the flop without burning. (burn card stays the same) Dealer error sucks but at least there is a chance of the same flop.

This is far more frequent in home games due to inexperience , alcohol, etc. but I have see this exact scenario in casino many times over the years.

[/ QUOTE ]

And whoever ruled to let the hand continue with no floor intervention gets kicked in the nuts.

DiggerDog · #5 06-14-2006, 09:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And whoever ruled to let the hand continue with no floor intervention gets kicked in the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

What the poker world needs is an automated nut kicker. Something that is perhaps attached to the table, hangs down at nutsack level and is then remotely controlled by the floor manager enabling him or her to issue a swift and decisive blow to the appropriate party's scrote.

Darth Poker · #6 06-14-2006, 11:58 PM

Thank you very much for your insight, guys. I'll report this rule finding before the first card is in the air at next week's game. I really appreciate ya'll taking the time to answer. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Quadstriker · #7 06-15-2006, 05:56 AM

To summarize...
Set the exposed cards aside, leave the burn where it is, and complete the preflop action (his chance to call, fold, raise). Then shuffle the flop cards back in with the stub (Leaving the muck and burn card where it is) and deal a new 3 card flop (No burn card this time.)

Khabbi · #8 06-15-2006, 10:13 AM

For guys who don't know the rules, you are going to get some bad decisions. Here are the options they could have come up with in order of how I would rank them from best to worst:

1) Shuffle the premature flop back into the deck. Let pre-flop action complete and then set the flop (this is the way a casino would do it).

2) Dead hand - return everyone's money (at least no one benefits here).

3) Continue to play the hand allowing BB's re-raise on a premature flop to stand (possibly the worst ruling I've seen in all of poker).

Lottery Larry · #9 06-15-2006, 10:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Folds around to the BB, and the dealer deals the flop before the BB has a chance to act. People are yelling @ the dealer to stop, but BB sees the flop before dealer has a chance to flip them face down again. BB then calls the pre-flop raise, and re-raises.

Button ends up losing most of his stack to BB.

and Button is clueless

what's the proper ruling here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ruling? Button is a complete MORON ("clueless", indeed, losing that much on the hand) and BB is an ass.

Other than that, it can't be a dead hand. As you already are aware, the reshuffle/redeal procedures have been mentioned.

Sounds as if you need to train some alternate floorpeople, Darth.