JJ Big multiway pot, I wait for a safe turn card...

MrEngenic · #1 06-08-2006, 05:43 PM

New player, so no reads. Can I fold to his turn 3bet? I would against someone with reasonable stats considering his show of strenght, but I'm not sure vs un unknown party 2/4 player.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, MP calls, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, MP folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (15 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

philnewall · #2 06-08-2006, 05:49 PM

No cap pf? Even if he's got an overpair you'll be going tot he flop 5-way so almost got the odds just to flop a set..plus you may knock out a limper and get dead money in there.
I'd raise the flop...your jacks are too vunerable.
Turn I call dwn...you've underrepresented your hand and villian is unknown.

allaboutmyfetti · #3 06-08-2006, 06:08 PM

I mis-use this play all the time so I would be curious what other people have to say. Yes jacks are vulnerable, but that's kind of the point no? In this big pot people have odds to call down with anything, so raising the flop will do litle to protect. I don't know how BB's aggression factors into it though ..

4-bet PF.

philnewall · #4 06-08-2006, 06:11 PM

AK/AQs etc..ie the hands we're hoping villian will have, are unlikely to follow through on the turn assuming everyone calls the flop bet.
This means we're raising the turn vs AA-99 and other random crap.

MrEngenic · #5 06-08-2006, 06:24 PM

We'll the reason I dont't raise the flop is: my jacks are vulnerable and 2 sb won't protect if anyone caught any piece of the board. 2 bb on the turn might though.

I'm was thinking about the chapters in SSH "when the pot gets big" and "two overpair hands" when I played this hand, but it really feels like it backfires when he 3bets the turn...

Disconnected · #6 06-08-2006, 06:27 PM

I wouldn't wait for the turn here (heck, I wouldn't have waited for the flop here). First of all, on the flop, you can protect against overcards with a raise. Second, on the turn, there is no guarantee that BB will bet again.

If your pair were higher and there was a gutshot type of board, I would think waiting for a safe turn to raise would be OK.

As played on the flop, I think calling down from his 3-bet is marginal, but I'm afraid I'd pay it off, rationalizing to myself that he could have TT or pushed AdKd hard. Actually, if he were playing against me, he'd have AdQd [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img].

philnewall · #7 06-08-2006, 06:28 PM

Yeah when he 3-bets I think you gotta call down...if you had capped p/f however and the postflop action had been the same you could have maybe found a fold - but he's unknown and the pot is big so folding a winner would be tragic.

allaboutmyfetti · #8 06-08-2006, 06:28 PM

Just because villian might be ahead of us, I don't think is a reason to raise the flop instead of the turn. If villian is ahead then we have 2 outs, if we're ahead he could have as many as 6 and the rest of the field might have more. Sort of a ... way behind or slightly-ahead (of the field).

I still think everything was good ... up until you got 3-bet but it happens.

Disconnected · #9 06-08-2006, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn I call dwn...you've underrepresented your hand and villian is unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean you call the turn down from villain's lead, or his 3-bet?

allaboutmyfetti · #10 06-08-2006, 06:30 PM

on the flop the pot is ginormous, people are getting 9:1 calling 2 cold (+ implied) so, i don't see a flop raise protecting anything.