Trip report -- Saturday's terrible home cash game (semi-long)

[Colima420]

Ok. I play only tournaments with a group of friends (Usually between 7 and 15 people per game).

We buy in for $20 and use an internet type payout distribution of 1st $100, 2nd $60, 3rd $40 if 10 people are there. We get 3,000 in chips and blinds start 50-100 and go up every 12 minutes.

Last week a friend from my University says that his roomates play NL hold'em and that I should go. I get excited because it would be interesting to play with people of which I have no idea about their playing style, their skill level, etc.

I show up with one of my friends. Once we get there, we find out that they play cash games. Not my preference, but I am open minded and say "no problem".

I almost die when I hear that the blinds will be 0.25-0.50. I was expecting at least 0.50-1, hopefully 1-2.

But OK, I am just a guest here and I have to adapt to the circumstances. The Tecate and Corona beer along with the Mexican music help me cope with the situation.

The first hand starts and someone raises to 0.75. I mention that the raise has to be at least double the big blind. The host tells me: "it's just a friendly game". So once again I have to put up with all this because it is not my house nor my game.

We get to the turn card and someone bets 0.25. I mention that in cash games, it is normally the convention that the min. bets on the turn and river should be twice the min. bets pre-flop and flop. In a 0.25-0.50, the min bet on the turn and river should be at least $1. I am told again how this is a friendly game.

So after about 4 hours, everyone either lost about $5 or won $5.

What bothered me so much about this game wasn't only the low stakes, but more that they weren't playing the game correctly.
I am meticulous and I take the rules or conventions of the game very seriously.

Nedless to say, I will not be going back to that game. I'd rather continue playing with my friends at out $20 buy in, following all the rules and just having and overall better game.

PS. The players were nice people, just not into poker the way most of us 2+2er's are.

[Lottery Larry]

"We get to the turn card and someone bets 0.25. I mention that in cash games, it is normally the convention that the min. bets on the turn and river should be twice the min. bets pre-flop and flop. In a 0.25-0.50, the min bet on the turn and river should be at least $1. "

Umm, NO. Only in a limit game is that true. In NL, the minimum opening bet is ALWAYS the big blind amount, all streets.

"What bothered me so much about this game wasn't only the low stakes, but more that they weren't playing the game correctly.
I am meticulous and I take the rules or conventions of the game very seriously."

Then you're going to have problems unless you stick to particular types of home games.

Lesson learned- always get more details if the stakes or game atmosphere are super-important to you.

BTW, if this is "semi-long" then my trip report must have been "monstrously long".... and you haven't seen one of my game summary reports! :P

[Colima420]

Lol. Actually after I put my post, I read your report and I did realize that the "semi-long" thing looked ridiculous when compared to yours.

Regarding what you said about the rules, thank you. It just goes to show how I'm completely out of touch with cash games.

[TomHimself]

if they were gonna play 1/2 then u woulda prolly bought in for less than 50 so whats the point?
25c/50c allows for more play

[Banks2334]

How do you not know betting structures for being such a serious and meticulous player? More importantly, what's with drinking Corona and Tecate?

[Colima420]

OK. So I don't make an ass out of myself in a cash game if I ever happen to be in one or post about it again, let me see if I got it right.

Limit:
sb-bb. Min. bet pre-flop and flop = bb
Min. bet turn and river = 2xbb

No limit
sb-bb. Min. bet at every stage = bb

Is this the correct structure for cash games???

Thanks for the responses.

[NickMPK]

You play $20 buy-in tournaments, and you expected the blinds of the cash game to be $1-$2? That's at least a $100 buy-in, you know, right? .25-.50 blinds sounds about right for people who play $20 tournaments.

I play a .25-.50 cash game most weeks; buy-in is $20, which is a bit too low and doesn't last long, and the average swing is about $40. If people are "raising" to .75, then just treat them like a limper and either bigger raises yourself or call with drawing hands hoping to hit the flop. I don't see what this game would have any less swings, or be any less beatable, than any other loose passive game.

[Lottery Larry]

" So I don't make an ass out of myself in a cash game if I ever happen to be in one or post about it again"

You didn't make an "ass" out of yourself- some of us have hair-triggers if we think someone is coming across in a know-it-all, I'm-right manner. There are a lot of people like that, so when their information is incorrect, we make a hobby out of ripping them to shreds (for their addytude, not necessarily their "ignorance")

Unfortunately, online it's very easy to misread lack of experience/knowledge and tone, and sometimes we pounce on innocent intentions. Ignore some of the grief you'll get in replies, and you'll do just fine.

....especially true of that cranky ole' Banks. :P

"Limit:
sb-bb. Min. bet pre-flop and flop = bb
Min. bet turn and river = 2xbb"

Correct, even though your logic is a bit backwards. When casinos spread limit games, they set the limits and then determine what the blinds will be, BASED on the betting limits set.

In a standard structured betting game, which is what you'll usually see with holdem, you have set betting increments as you've described- 1 small bet, 1 big bet on later streets that is twice the size of the small bet. Thus, $2/4, $3/6, $5/10, $7.50/$15, etc.

The blinds are based on the smaller bet- the big blind is set equal to the small bet, for obvious reasons; the small blind is usually half of the BB. Since poker rooms don't use coins or quarter chips (the $7.5/15 game uses special $2.50 chips), certain games can't have 1:2 ratios. So, in a $3/6 game, typically the SB is $1 and the BB the expected $3. In $5/10, it's $2 and $5 blinds.

Clearer now?

"No limit
sb-bb. Min. bet at every stage = bb"

Exactly. And you were correct in your OP- standard raises have to at least double the previous bet/raise increment.

Home games, however, can have some weird rules. I've been in games and tourneys where the betting can go $1, raise to $3, reraise to $4.50, cap at $5.

The min-raisers almost always have big neon flounder signs over their heads. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]

You play $20 buy-in tournaments, and you expected the blinds of the cash game to be $1-$2? That's at least a $100 buy-in, you know, right? .25-.50 blinds sounds about right for people who play $20 tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he obviously DIDN'T know the standard 100:1 "rule" (really, a goal) for starting stack:BB ratios. Now he does.
Ideally, $0.10/0.20 would be better for a $20 buy in, but it's better still to get away from the 1:1 ratios that the WSOP features and just do expanded chips as most small tourneys do, these days.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
if they were gonna play 1/2 then u woulda prolly bought in for less than 50 so whats the point?
25c/50c allows for more play

[/ QUOTE ]

TomH, I assume that the "less than 50" is a mistype? Or were you saying you'd expect people to mistakenly buy in for $30-40 in a $1/2 NLHE game, when they should think $150 or more as a minimum buy-in?