Metagame: Slowplaying AQs in multiway pot pf

[cboevey]

It seems that often when I raise my strong drawing hands pre-flop and an A or K flops, every credits me for a hand (especially if they don't have one) and folds. So I tried an experiment where I would just flat call pf, and see what happens. Since I'm not such a great player yet I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I strongly suspect I would not have extracted as much value had I raised pf. I also strongly suspect that a move like this would not work at higher limits (tighter games) but may work especially well at lower levels (looser games).

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]], A[[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]].
UTG calls, <font color="Gray">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="Gray">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 8[[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]], A[[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]], 7[[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] <font color="Blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="Red">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, <font color="Red">CO raises</font>, <font color="Red">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) K[[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] <font color="Blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="Red">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, CO folds.

River: (8.50 BB) 2[[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] <font color="Blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="Red">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls $0.75 (All-In).

Final Pot: 9.87 BB

[mvoss]

In general I think this is bad. You aren't going to win back the money postflop that you lost by not raising preflop.

[NinaWilliams]

yea dont do this. You miss out on way too much preflop.

[WhiteWolf]

Don't try to be deceptive in multiway pots. Don't give the BB a free look at the flop in your effort to 'trick' the other players. Don't do this in loose games where they're likely to call you anyways - instead build a big pot so they are even more encouraged to call you down drawing thin.

[yourface]

it's been said but you miss a ton of value by not raising preflop

[Guy McSucker]

In your example hand, CO is clearly insane. Quite how you can reason about what might have happened had you raised preflop when your opponents are obviously a few stars short of a galaxy I have no idea.

With that in mind... RAISE PREFLOP DAMMIT.

You get a lot of value from the PF raise immediately, and --- surprise surprise --- if your opponents fold very readily in the now-large pot when an ace or queen flops, they might actually be giving up value there too.

Guy.

[bboy_]

this is very bad but would be much worse in position

[UtzChips]

I don't like limping preflop because:

-You only have 2 opponents and with there only being 84 hands (22+/AK)that are better than yours, you will have the best hand against 5 opponents 70% of the time.

-Since nobody raised, they most likely have drawing hands and you do severe damage to their implied odds when you raise preflop.

-The fact that you are suited makes your hand a powerful drawing hand, as well as having overcards to most flops.

-Even if someone has a pair, you are approx a 49/51 dog to a pair 77 and less. That's the power of being suited. Unsuited, you're a 45/54 dog.

-If they both limped with 77 or smaller pairs, you have almost 41% pot equity, 1% less than 77.

-You give the big blind infinite odds on seeing the flop. There are a lot of hands the big blind would be correct in calling a raise with, getting 7:1 on his money. If he has one of those hands, he no longer has to make a decision as to whether to call and risk one of the limpers 3 betting.