Small pair Vs loose agg player on paired flop!?

HarshCharlie · #1 03-12-2007, 09:41 AM

PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

OK,i know his an loose/ agg player, (PFR 20% flop af 2.5) but im still freakin out a bit. Im guessing all i can really beat is Ax [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] PLus, CO cold called 2 bets on the flop, which either indicates a flush draw of a J.

Turn: (7 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, CO calls, Hero?

Now that CO has called it looks like he has a flush draw. But i cant be sure. Time to let it go?

TJO · #2 03-12-2007, 10:05 AM

I c/f this flop. As played I fold the turn.

edited: mixed up VPIP and PFR

HarshCharlie · #3 03-12-2007, 10:12 AM

PFR 20% covers a massive range of starting hands.

TJO · #4 03-12-2007, 10:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PFR 20% covers a massive range of starting hands.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes you're right. Sorry I made a mistake there.

fabadam · #5 03-12-2007, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PFR 20% covers a massive range of starting hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it does, but there are also more players still in, and your hand suffers from reverse implied odds: even if you are ahead now, villain still have a massive number of outs vs you.
On this hand you can win a little or lose a lot (reverse implied odds), which makes me choose check/fold too.

Absolution · #6 03-12-2007, 10:27 AM

Why did you bet the flop? Are you just playing your own cards? You are betting on a street where the information you are going to get is useless, you're letting the pre-flop raiser protect his hand if he needs to and you are basically turning your hand over.

Edit: Oh ya, and the whole reverse implied odds thing.

McNeese72 · #7 03-12-2007, 10:51 AM

Why are you betting into three players (one of them a preflop raiser) with a paired board and a flush draw on the board?

I check/fold here.

Doc

marchron · #8 03-14-2007, 02:45 AM

I'll stick my neck out here . . . I like it. He's LAGtacular and could easily be raising the flop with whiffed overs. While I don't appreciate CO calling after we tried our damnedest to have Villain blow away the field, I'm not afraid of his hand (he posted PF) and if he has something dumb like 2x or a draw, he's padding the pot for us to show down against the maniac HU if he misses.

There's a whole ton of cards we don't want to see on the river: any [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], any Broadway, any 4; but I don't mind calling the turn getting 9-1 with what may be the best hand and half the deck on our side.

Goodnews · #9 03-14-2007, 03:24 AM

I am c/f this flop if its not HU after BB bets.

On the turn, I am folding (note that the c/f on the flop avoids this situation, the only time its easy is if a case 3 hits or CO wakes up).

martybonus · #10 03-14-2007, 05:47 AM

:grunch:

i don't like the flop donk. What do you beat here? Literally any PP has you drawing to 2 outs. This is an easy fold IMO against 4 players. Remember, LAG != idiot. He's not raising with nothing, is he? And even if he is, you've still got 2 others to contend with, neither of whom are afraid of his raise or the scary board. walk away.

hero autofolds the turn. you haven't improved at all and you're still up against 2 villains. for God's sake, fold.