6-max 50PLO: C/Ring big draws 2 hands

[jpg7n16]

Hero is playing at about 21/11/5
Opponent in hand 1 was : 82/32/2.57 and liked to 3bet often
Opponent in hand 2 was : 76/20/2.1

Although my preflop play in hand 1 may be a bit loose, are these check/raise lines both standard against agro opponents?

Hand 1:

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($50.65)
Hero ($61.15)
Button ($65.95)
SB ($55.15)
BB ($20.40)
UTG ($25.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $4.25.

Flop: ($12.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $12.15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $48.6</font> ??

Hand 2:

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($62.60)
CO ($24.25)
Button ($53.85)
SB ($57.50)
BB ($53.30)
Hero ($89.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, MP calls $1.75, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $4.5</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $2.75, MP calls $2.75.

Flop: ($14.25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $7.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $36.05</font>??

[TheRempel]

Hand 1 is a little spewy, your draw is good but not great and you're in bad shape if he's got any flush draw or blockers. Take a card off, if a spade comes and he checks behind you can rep the flush on the river if you miss.

Hand 2 is fine and very standard. Only reason to play it any different is if MP is extremely loose passive and will call with a wide range if you lead the flop but will fold a lot of hands you'd like in between if you c/r.

[jpg7n16]

Okay so Hand 1, if the flop were instead:
9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
or my hand was:
Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

would that be enough to c/r here?

I'm trying to figure out what I have to flop to play back at these guys who 3 bet often and pot any flop. Most of the time I have good connected cards, but don't flop enough to stay around - I feel like I'm making it too easy for people to repot me and take it away on the flop.

The hand 1 c/r was more or less to show this guy that I'd play back when he 3bet me -he 3bet everyone, not just me-. And I'd have lots of outs if called. &lt;-- my thinking

[cts]

With 3 to the flop, the initiative on the last person, and this scary of a board where he cant have AA+nfd I def lead the flop on hand 2. I wouldn't bet all that big (i.e. you flopped the nuts try to get a dominated draw to stick around/there is no way you can misplay this hand after you flop so huge).

Hand 1 meh if he is full pot/folding after 3-betting it's not too bad and you definitely gotta gamble with these guys to let em know they can't run you over, this spot isn't horrible but it ain't great.

[CrushinFelt]

Hand 1 is, like Remple said, a little spewy because of the flush draw out there. c/c is probably the best line

Hand 2 I agree with cts that this is a good time to lead. It's a scary board and a bare AA/KK might not fire because there's a good chance they get c/r'd. You flopped gin for your hand so you need to make sure some $ gets in the pot.

[jpg7n16]

So lessons learned:

1) Flush draws and possible blocked outs = bad time to be superagro w/ straight only draws
2) It's okay to take a card off w/o raising
3) Try and sandwich players with terrific combo draws (but not all the time - play variation)

Thanks to all 3 of you guys

[cts]

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1) Flush draws and possible blocked outs = bad time to be superagro w/ straight only draws
2) It's okay to take a card off w/o raising

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1-- this is probably true in this spot, but sometimes in HU matches vs extremely overaggro players who are reraising every hand you cannot let them run over you and have to jam anything resembling a nut draw so there are def spots where I'd push.

2-- bleh yea I guess others said this but I don't like it I'd just c/f. If I c/c I'd probably just donk full pot any time I hit a straight or a pair and donk between 1/2 and 2/3 pot any time a spade came.

[Slap My Jack]

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3) Try and sandwich players with terrific combo draws (but not all the time - play variation)



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If by sandwich you mean checkraise then not always. Some draws have so much equity that you want to bet out so you get more dead money in the pot, especially if you expect to get reraised to the point where you hvae to get it all-in by someone who has yet to act after the people who can potentially call.

[TheRempel]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Flush draws and possible blocked outs = bad time to be superagro w/ straight only draws

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Generally yes. In a situation where your opponent can call pretty wide with a lot of hands that can have you in rough shape you should avoid gambling unless it's for metagame. I still think it should be a very rare checkraise except against the occasional player that cbets and folds too often.

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2) It's okay to take a card off w/o raising

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Of course. Logically the players who make the best decisions on all streets will win the most money. Shoving your money in anytime you have a good hand or a shot at making one reduces the amount of mistakes your opponents can make and cuts into your profit. The best PLO players play a lot of medium pots while the worst stack off too often (or sometimes not enough).

[ QUOTE ]
3) Try and sandwich players with terrific combo draws (but not all the time - play variation)

[/ QUOTE ]
In the second hand you have the kind of hand that is pretty much unique to PLO - a drawing hand that is such a huge favorite over pretty much anything that you want to keep as many opponents calling as much as possible as long as possible. Leading in this spot to encourage callers can also save you some money in the future when you bet a much smaller draw and the PFR folds or just calls, allowing you to set your own price on your draws.

[alavet]

hand 2 i dont reraise for pot, but like 2/3