Three hands as the chip leader, did I play them right?

icemanjmw · #1 03-31-2006, 10:29 AM

Here is an attempt by me to fix a major problem with my poker play. Whenever I won a tournament before I would just close the table, pat myself on the back, and reflect on what a great player I was for beating a $5 SnG. Now in attempts to become a good player, I'm looking at questionable hands that could have cost me my whole stack. Hopefully the STT experts could chime in here with some comments on my play.

PS $5.50, three seperate hands throughout the tournament.
I'm raising any pot I enter, and entering pretty often so I probably have a pretty loose image at the table.
These hands are all suckouts for me, but they seemed like good plays at the time. I'll show hand then explain my reasoning. You guys tell me if it makes sense or if I was just a lucky donkey.

PokerStars Game #4473185528: Tournament #22257591, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/03/31 - 08:23:40 (ET)
Table '22257591 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: pep1955 (2110 in chips)
Seat 2: MontyBurns18 (2180 in chips)
Seat 3: 1551KY (1330 in chips)
Seat 4: Jumbz (1295 in chips)
Seat 5: icemanjmw13 (2625 in chips)
Seat 8: TeRaxX (1900 in chips)
Seat 9: sushiboynyc (2060 in chips)
Jumbz: posts small blind 15
icemanjmw13: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to icemanjmw13 [Kh Ad]
TeRaxX: folds
sushiboynyc: raises 90 to 120
pep1955: folds
MontyBurns18: folds
1551KY: folds
Jumbz: folds
icemanjmw13: raises 260 to 380
sushiboynyc: calls 260
*** FLOP *** [Qc 6h 7s]
icemanjmw13: checks
sushiboynyc: bets 540
icemanjmw13: raises 1705 to 2245 and is all-in
sushiboynyc: calls 1140 and is all-in
icemanjmw13 said, "nh"
*** TURN *** [Qc 6h 7s] [Kc]
*** RIVER *** [Qc 6h 7s Kc] [Jd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icemanjmw13: shows [Kh Ad] (a pair of Kings)
sushiboynyc: shows [Qh Ah] (a pair of Queens)
icemanjmw13 collected 4135 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4135 | Rake 0
Board [Qc 6h 7s Kc Jd]
Seat 1: pep1955 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: MontyBurns18 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: 1551KY (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Jumbz (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: icemanjmw13 (big blind) showed [Kh Ad] and won (4135) with a pair of Kings
Seat 8: TeRaxX folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: sushiboynyc showed [Qh Ah] and lost with a pair of Queens
Looking back this is probably the worst hand, but I tried to represent a set, and if I get called here and lose I still have plenty of chips to keep playing. He had also been betting anytime it was checked to him so he didn't have to have the Q here. Honestly it was a bad read by me, got lucky to win it obviously.

2 hands later
PokerStars Game #4473191732: Tournament #22257591, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/03/31 - 08:25:18 (ET)
Table '22257591 1' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: pep1955 (2110 in chips)
Seat 2: MontyBurns18 (2240 in chips)
Seat 3: 1551KY (1330 in chips)
Seat 4: Jumbz (1280 in chips)
Seat 5: icemanjmw13 (4670 in chips)
Seat 8: TeRaxX (1870 in chips)
TeRaxX: posts small blind 25
pep1955: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to icemanjmw13 [8h 9c]
MontyBurns18: calls 50
1551KY: folds
Jumbz: folds
icemanjmw13: raises 100 to 150
TeRaxX: calls 125
pep1955: folds
MontyBurns18: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [8s 7c 3h]
TeRaxX: bets 300
MontyBurns18: folds
icemanjmw13: raises 450 to 750
TeRaxX: raises 970 to 1720 and is all-in
icemanjmw13: calls 970
*** TURN *** [8s 7c 3h] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [8s 7c 3h 8c] [2s]
icemanjmw13 said, "im trying to donk them off"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TeRaxX: shows [Ts Td] (two pair, Tens and Eights)
icemanjmw13: shows [8h 9c] (three of a kind, Eights)
icemanjmw13 collected 3940 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3940 | Rake 0
Board [8s 7c 3h 8c 2s]
Seat 1: pep1955 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: MontyBurns18 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: 1551KY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Jumbz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: icemanjmw13 (button) showed [8h 9c] and won (3940) with three of a kind, Eights
Seat 8: TeRaxX (small blind) showed [Ts Td] and lost with two pair, Tens and Eights
Here I thought the first bet was just a steal with AK or something and I really figure top pair here is best but very vulnerable and hard to play if any paint comes on the turn, so I'm trying to end the hand right here. Again a bad read I get rewarded for.

Now on the bubble, I have been really bullying at this point, basically making the others play for their stack if I'm in the pot This seems like a standard bubble play a the chip leader or no? Not really a suckout here, just won a coinflip.
PokerStars Game #4473305602: Tournament #22257591, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/03/31 - 08:54:20 (ET)
Table '22257591 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: pep1955 (1085 in chips)
Seat 2: MontyBurns18 (2345 in chips)
Seat 4: Jumbz (1205 in chips)
Seat 5: icemanjmw13 (8865 in chips)
MontyBurns18: posts small blind 75
Jumbz: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to icemanjmw13 [6c 6h]
icemanjmw13: raises 2350 to 2500
pep1955: calls 1085 and is all-in
MontyBurns18: folds
Jumbz: folds
*** FLOP *** [6d Js Jd]
Jumbz said, "yikes"
MontyBurns18 said, "nh"
*** TURN *** [6d Js Jd] [4h]
Jumbz said, "gg pep"
*** RIVER *** [6d Js Jd 4h] [5d]
icemanjmw13 said, "GG"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icemanjmw13: shows [6c 6h] (a full house, Sixes full of Jacks)
pep1955: shows [8c Ac] (a pair of Jacks)
Jumbz said, "iceman"
icemanjmw13 collected 2395 from pot
Jumbz said, "you just sucked me out there"
Jumbz said, "folded a 99"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2395 | Rake 0
Board [6d Js Jd 4h 5d]
Seat 1: pep1955 (button) showed [8c Ac] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 2: MontyBurns18 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Jumbz (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: icemanjmw13 showed [6c 6h] and won (2395) with a full house, Sixes full of Jacks

Thanks for any one who can give advice.

luthar · #2 03-31-2006, 10:59 AM

First off... please convert your hands before posting them.. way easier to see...

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Beezelbub - UTG (t1900)
Evil Emperor Zurg - UTG+1 (t2060)
Professor Moriarty - MP1 (t2110)
Agent Smith - CO (t2180)
Lex Luthor - Button (t1330)
Catbert - SB (t1295)
Hero (t2625)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Beezelbub folds, Evil Emperor Zurg raises to t120, Professor Moriarty folds, Agent Smith folds, Lex Luthor folds, Catbert folds, Hero raises to t380, Evil Emperor Zurg calls t260

Flop: (t805) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Evil Emperor Zurg bets t540, Hero raises to t2245 (All-in), Evil Emperor Zurg calls t1140 (All-in)

Turn: (t4730) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t4730) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Agent Smith - UTG (t2240)
Lex Luthor - UTG+1 (t1330)
Catbert - CO (t1280)
Hero (t4670)
Beezelbub - SB (t1870)
Professor Moriarty - BB (t2110)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Agent Smith calls t50, Lex Luthor folds, Catbert folds, Hero raises to t150, Beezelbub calls t125, Professor Moriarty folds, Agent Smith calls t100

Flop: (t500) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Beezelbub bets t300, Agent Smith folds, Hero raises to t750, Beezelbub raises to t1720 (All-in), Hero calls t970

Turn: (t4240) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t4240) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t8865)
Professor Moriarty - Button (t1085)
Agent Smith - SB (t2345)
Catbert - BB (t1205)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero raises to t2500, Professor Moriarty calls t1085 (All-in), Agent Smith folds, Catbert folds

Flop: (t3810) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t3810) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t3810) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

luthar · #3 03-31-2006, 11:13 AM

Hand #1: PF is good.. but why did you go all-in on that hand with NOTHING?! that would be a fold for me. No need to risk that many chips for nothing.

Hand #2: I'm totally in the dark with your raise PF. As for your play post-flop, its totally wrong. With a 6x BB you are beaten by any overcard pair.

Honestly, you have been lucky playing these two hands. IMHO, stop being so over-agressive for nothing. It worked but you'll have trouble against good players.

Hand 3: Why the so big raise? your raising about 12x the BB. You could have taken the blinds with only a 3-4x BB raise. Once again, your we're lucky to catch a 6 on flop.

I'm not the best poker player here, but you played those in a way I can't explain. Tight up a bit and play the hands you can win and try to go all-in when you are ahead!

Emilgence · #4 03-31-2006, 11:22 AM

Wow. You are absolutely terrible. But thanks to guys like you, I can just wait for the nuts and easily double up.

HedonismBot · #5 03-31-2006, 11:35 AM

The way you think about the hands is totally wrong. Hand1 on the flop you say to yourself "he bets with anything, therefore I reraise all in." You are basically playing to get lucky, hoping that this time he will also have nothing. You don't want to make random moves like this and justify your reasoning after the fact, saying that you're representing a set. No one will ever fold a Q or even a mid pocket pair to your push, it's terrible but something that someone with little experience wouldn't know. Now you do know, so you won't make this mistake in the future (thinking someone will put you on a set just because you think they should).

Hand2 Your raise preflop is terrible, you have no reason whatsoever to play this pot, fold it.

Hand3 is fine.

Conclusion: You are a beginner and don't really know what you're doing. You will continue to play bad, losing poker for a several months. Throughout that time you will see random tidbits of information in books and here on 2+2 which you will misapply. My advice is to find someone in real life that you can watch play sit n goes and have them explain their play to you. Otherwise you'l be pretty hopeless for some time.

Todd · #6 03-31-2006, 11:45 AM

Hand 1- Your line is most appropriate when you have a set or another hand likely to be way ahead, like AA or KK. Here, on a draw light board, you are pushing with overcards, and it almost looks like a spite push. This is hugely wrong. You cant possibly think you are ahead here, villian (who preflop raised!) bet pot into the preflop reraiser, so you have to be hoping that either villain will fold to your push, (which they wont, they are representing real strength here), or that you have as many as 6(!) outs to win if they call, and that discounts the times you drawing dead to villians AA, KK or QQ. This is maniacal, not aggressive. IMO.

Hand 2- It would be OK if you always folded 89o in middle position early in tourney. Just do it, and dont get all tricky and agressive with a s#itty hand. Fold your crappy top pr no kicker on the flop, dont reraise bettor.

Hand 3-SNGPT probably has a better answer about pushing 66 UTG 4 handed with a big stack. I would probably fold this, since you have three people to act and are at best in a coin flip. This may be a leak of mine...

Todd · #7 03-31-2006, 11:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
(thinking someone will put you on a set just because you think they should).

[/ QUOTE ]

The irony here is that the only set that would make sense is QQ, but villian has a Q (unbeknownst to 'hero'), and if you had that set, you would never push on a drawless board like that. (Well I wouldnt).

[ QUOTE ]

Conclusion: You are a beginner and don't really know what you're doing. You will continue to play bad, losing poker for a several months. Throughout that time you will see random tidbits of information in books and here on 2+2 which you will misapply.

[/ QUOTE ]

THis is harsh, but it may be true. But you must study and think. At the low levels there is very little insane bluffing, well except by OP [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Most of the time villian has what he is represneting. If villian bets pot into a preflop raiser you can bet that they have something, and it doesnt pay to keep looking them up because Harrington said people bluff 10% of the time.

In both hand 1 and 2, you got over aggressive, and did not credit villian with a hand, even tho the Hand1 villian preflop raised early, and the Hand2 villian reraised all in. Both of these guys are saying, "I can beat you".

T

Wolfram · #8 03-31-2006, 12:39 PM

You sir, are a donk.

Hand #1: I'm not crazy about PF. Sure you can raise, but you're out of position and he made a healthy 4BB raise. But raising gives you added info (his hand is probably strong, since he calls). Flop push is afwufl. You hit nothing, and he is betting a correct amount for at least top pair. Lay it down.

Hand #2: Pf is awful. Turbofold this ish. On the flop you hit top pair, but you are so vulnerable to a better 8, overpair or just AK that just won't go away (like you in the first hand). Call/Fold to the raise and fold to the all-in.

Hand #3: I actually like your raise. Only SB has more than 10BB so this is definitely a push/fold situation. And you have them so well covered that 66 is good here.

Edit: I just ran hand 3 through SnGPT and it seems it's not as good as I thought. This is mostly due to the fact that the blinds are still very low. Might wanna consider limping here for set value, since I fear a 3BB raise will just get you an all-in re-steal from BB shortie.

DevinLake · #9 03-31-2006, 01:08 PM

The third hand is good, the rest are very bad.

Hand 1: First off, I probably just flat call this hand. You're in the SB so you are going to be out of position for the rest of the hand, so there is no need to build a big pot early.

As played, you should lead this flop. It's a decent flop for you AK as it is not the coordinated so it's less likely to have hit your opponent. Fold to a re-raise, and play carefull if flat called.

Instead you tried to represent very unlikely hands, a set. The only set you would likely have is QQ, and he has a Q so this would be unlikely for him to believe. He's not going to be worried about you re-raising 66,77 out of position preflop. When you are representing a hand, it needs to be believable. Not to mention, representing hands at the $5 where they don't read hands is a waste of time and chips.

Hand 2: Fold preflop. Your trying to steal blinds with an EP limper, not a good idea. Also, your steal attempt is way to weak. You've only raised to 3BBs with 2.5 BBs already in the middle. You're giving him 2.75-1 to call.

The combination of his EP limp, preflop call, and lead on this flop I'm worried about over pairs here or a set. I think I just fold to his lead bet. I fold for sure to his re-re-raise.

DevinLake · #10 03-31-2006, 01:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Conclusion: You are a beginner and don't really know what you're doing. You will continue to play bad, losing poker for a several months. Throughout that time you will see random tidbits of information in books and here on 2+2 which you will misapply. My advice is to find someone in real life that you can watch play sit n goes and have them explain their play to you. Otherwise you'l be pretty hopeless for some time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow...what's this? I read books, and read 2+2 and have improved a lot without ever having anyone watch me play a SNG. I also was a winner from the very beginning with limited play money experience. I did read books before I started to play real money, but still....

To the OP, just keep posting here and reading as much as possible and you'll be a winning player in no time (if you are not already one). It is not that diffucult to be a winning player at the lower levels even with a tonne of leaks, because you're opponents out leak you for the most part.