hand of catastrophic proportions

[TStoneMBD]

after calling on 3rd i realized that it was probably a mistake, largely having to do with the fact that low hands with an 8 showing usually have powerful high drawing hands to turn into, like 678 and such whereas hands with a 2 showing are often random stuff like 257. as soon as i called i also regretted playing it mostly due to the fact that these online high stakes games are very aggressive and ill get put in nightmare situations like i did in this hand. how should i play this hand after getting involved?

seat6 is whatis7x6, the 2p2 poster davebreal if im not mistaken.


7 Card Stud High-Low ($100/$200), Ante $15, Bring-In $30 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (4.60 SB)

Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

i thought about mucking here in fear of getting jammed but i think my equity is still high enough to proceed. should i raise? one benefit of calling is that if the 2 mistakenly calls the 84 should raise now having substantial equity, and my KK's equity goes up having someone calling a bet with a 3card low when about to be faced with 2 more bets back to him.

5th Street - (3.80 BB)

Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___raises___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls

i figure i might as well put in 1 more raise rather than let seat 5 only do it when correct for him. my raise also makes it look like i have 2 pair which may be helpful later and i think my equity is still over 33%. no?

6th Street - (15.80 BB)

Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

things just went from troublesome to atrocious. seat 5 looks like he jammed a hand like 45/A5 on 5th and now made a very strong low which would mean im likely to get jammed in a horrible horrible spot so i muck.

[Rush17]

I'd raise on 4th if I decided to limp/call as you did coming in. You've got good position in this hand. The way I see it, it looks as if you called when you should have raised, raised when you should have(at best)called.

5th street seems odd to me; if you wanted to attempt to drive out some of the field, i think the time to do that was between 3rd-4th street. But if you're going to raise on 5th, then why not do it as soon as seat 7 bets? Your way gives the 2J6 hand the liberty to face only 1 bet. Your hand is getting weaker, not stronger, and I think it's time to pick a side...raise or fold. Calling and then 3 betting seems to be a little spewy, I think.

[Bill King]

hey mike,


im not sure off the top of my head, but in an almost 16BB pot not including the possibility of improving on the river, how much of a mistake folding is here for one bet. i think your line of thinking was spot on here... and i also like the cap b/c its probably being capped regardless if you do it or not.. but i think you decided a street too late and several bets too late that you were either A. beaten or B. didnt want to invest more into the pot.

also.. seat 6 mucked two razz up-cards that will effect the high section equity just incase your K's up are still in trouble on 7th.. just my 2 cents

[Andy B]

Third and fourth are fine, in my opinion. I think you have to fold to the three-bet on fifth, though. Is 6J2 check-raising without having Kings beaten? And 874 could well make a straight or maybe something else that beats Kings-up. You're drawing for half of a smallish pot, and it looks like it's going to get expensive. Kings are fine when the low hands bust. 874 didn't bust.

[Rush17]

the 6J2 could very well have a 2-way drawing hand (ie; flush draw with a good low draw). And I agree that the fold should be on 5th, especially seeing that he chose to keep the pot small prior to this round.

[2461Badugi]

I think the problem with playing your kings here is that in a 100/200 game, people are going to be very resistant to being kicked out of pots. And so much of your value comes from being able to get headsup quickly that that loses you a lot.

It seems to me that you really have to raise fourth street and hope Seat 6 was on air or paired. If you can't narrow the field there and both players look like they can continue on fifth, then you can dump the hand there.

[Johnny#5]

[ QUOTE ]
Third and fourth are fine, in my opinion. I think you have to fold to the three-bet on fifth, though. Is 6J2 check-raising without having Kings beaten? And 874 could well make a straight or maybe something else that beats Kings-up. You're drawing for half of a smallish pot, and it looks like it's going to get expensive. Kings are fine when the low hands bust. 874 didn't bust.

[/ QUOTE ]

[PokerJans]

On 5th the pot is rather small. The other two players aren't folding and you are going to just call down to hopefully win half the pot. No good, fold them yo.

#rd and 4th are thin but they are both good IMO.

whatis7x6 is whatis7x6 on twoplustwo btw

[SuitedBaby]

Raise or fold 3rd. I'd raise here 4-way. There is a reasonable chance you'll have it heads-up or at least 3-way and putting the money in here can't be too much of a mistake if any.

As played raise or fold 4th. However I think a call here after calling 3rd is less bad than the call on 3rd. It is reasonably likely the 8d4c has a pocket pair and I think you want him out as well as the 2J and take your chances heads-up. Your worried about powerful drawing hands but you don't want people backing into 2 pair either. In your situation I think it is worth a shot on 3rd or 4th to try and get them out anytime you can make them face 2 cold. If you do call, and don't improve while they catch good I can't see continuing on 5th.

When in doubt, as I often am, I just try to remember highs punish the lows cheaply on 3rd and 4th and get punished by the lows on the later expensive streets, and virtually never the other way around. That's why I hate playing them, but if I do, I go for it aggressively early or I find I have regrets, especially short-handed. I really hate check-call-pray in a medium sized pot.

Patty

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
seat 5 looks like he jammed a hand like 45/A5 on 5th

[/ QUOTE ]

If he picked up a club draw also he's sitting pretty. Which explains why he'd give that much action on 5th to a likely made low possible str.