Q3s: SB vs. BB

[James.]

i played a couple streets differently than i normally would. one i played more passively, and one a bit more aggressively.

6handed.

i complete the sb with Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] versus a relative unknown BB. although he is unknown, we have had a couple run ins with me taking down the pot via showdown or his folding each time.

as is SOP for me, i had raised a couple times from the sb in this situation earlier, but i had also mixed it up and completed a couple times with the intentions of donking any flop and expecting to take it down UI most of the time.

Flop(4sb): 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

i bet, he calls.

Turn(3bb): Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

i bet, he now raises. call or 3town? remember, we are having alot of confrontations given our position relative to each other and this being 6 max. whatever i do here, i need to keep that in mind. what's the best play and why?
whatever you say to do, what's the plan on the river if the board pairs? another Queen comes? we hit two pair? we hit our flush?

[DosXX]

Is he passsive or aggressive? If you've had a couple of run-ins already you probably know if he is going to tend to be more passive or aggressive.

If he's passive, I would call the turn. Another queen I bet, 2-pair I bet, our flush I c/r.

If he's aggressive I 3-bet turn. If he caps I c/c any river, bet a queen, c/r a flush or 3 turn. If he only calls the turn I bet any river except a ten, which I c/c.

[StrictlyStrategy]

I'd call and CR most rivers.

[goofball]

3town. There are just so many things that are good about 3town vs. calling. Among them are:

-value, he's doing this with lots of pairs or whatevers
-if we're behind we have lots of outs
-there's basically no way this can be bad for metagame because your hand will only be shown if either you are best of he pussifies out and calls down with QJ or whatever

3bet is so so good here.


SS,
Awful awful suggestion. On one hand villian is freeshowdowning a lot so we miss value when ahead. On the other hand though we are behind lots of his range when he does fire the river. However we are getting 3towned (and making a tilty call) the times he has a monster. Call-c/r just wins the least and loses the most and really the only value is it makes you think you're tricky.

[StrictlyStrategy]

Point taken.

[aK13]

Easy 3 town. I think we have the best hand a huge portion of the time, and we extract tons of value from his T or 97 or even other spades.

If we get capped, I think we call down even if we don't improve. I think 3bet and calling a cap then folding river for 1 more would be terrible for your image, even though you're probably losing the majority of the time.

[Yoshi63]

I think this is an awesome 3-bet. Besides the fact that I think it increases your equity for this specific hand, betting = aggression = more value down the road.

[Chino987]

B/3B in a blind battle, imo.

[Harv72b]

I 3bet the turn without another thought. And all mixing up your play arguments aside, I'd raise this one preflop every time--I don't like opencompleting big/little hands in general, unless maybe it's a sooted ace and my opponent is way overaggressive in BvB.

As far as why I 3bet the turn:
1) Value.
2) Value.
3) Even if I'm behind, like you said we're going to be playing a lot of hands against this guy OOP. Let him know you'll "overplay" a hand like this on a late street, to set up more bet/3bet opportunities later when you're stronger and/or check/raise opportunities when you're this strong.
4) Value.

Assuming he doesn't cap the turn, I'm bet/calling any river card except a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], in which case I'm bet/3bet/calling.

[James.]

yeah, i thought this turn was a pretty easy 3bet as well. i just wanted to make sure the rest of the forum understood what/why we make the play. we are very often ahead in this spot, so as Harv alluded to...twice, it's for value. for the few occasions that villain has a queen(or even more unlikely, two)or a big PP we had quite a few outs to catch up if behind.

also, 3betting that turn is going to slow villain down on the big streets in future hands. players will often raise the turn less frequently(i.e. only with their stronger hands)if they feel the threat of being 3bet is fairly significant. similar to why we 3bet from the SB/BB late position openraises that are usually steal attempts.

as far as preflop goes, opencompleting/donking is a steal play i've used for quite a while in SB/BB situations. it keeps the pot tiny and gets your opponent less emotionally attached to the hand since they have less invested. since you don't see it very often it works a high percentage of the time for me so i keep it in the bag of tricks, though admittedly i use it less on shorthanded tables because of the higher aggression factors.

as for the rest of the hand:

he raises, i 3bet, he calls.

River is an 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

i bet again and villain folds.