Theory Question

[BobboFitos]

Heads up NLH, normal structure (sb=button). Villain is a computer capable of playing ABC perfect poker. Is it possible to beat this opponent?

If you dont think so, why not? Remember, this opponent never makes an ABC mistake.

If you do think so, why? Remember, we do not play ABC perfectly.

[schwza]

does he play perfectly or does he play abc? perfect poker includes occasional crazy [censored].

[DJ Sensei]

does ABC perfect poker include adapting to our tendencies perfectly? because if not, we can crush the computer.

i havent played too much HU, but i'm pretty sure there is no perfect way to play it.

[The Velour Fog]

a definition of "perfect ABC poker" might be in order if you'd want to some meaningful discussions.

perfect for HU especially? and what does that mean?

[MatthewRyan]

I think you need to define ABC poker.

C/Call all draws, bet all made hands? Or is ABC more than that?

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
does he play perfectly or does he play abc? perfect poker includes occasional crazy [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

He plays perfect abc poker, which technically is not a perfect game. I understand your definition of perfect poker, and I agree with it (crazy stuff balances everything else and probably in isolation is +EV anyway) so if this computer makes a crazy move, it's because in isolation thats the best way to play the hand.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
does he play perfectly or does he play abc? perfect poker includes occasional crazy [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

He plays perfect abc poker, which technically is not a perfect game. I understand your definition of perfect poker, and I agree with it (crazy stuff balances everything else and probably in isolation is +EV anyway) so if this computer makes a crazy move, it's because in isolation thats the best way to play the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, i see what you're saying. i'd say there's no way i'm beating that computer but another computer that plays truly perfect (knows meta) would beat the abc computer.

[MasterLJ]

I think you get into some other issues when discussing this. Personally I think it's important to know how the bot works. What ABC means to the person who programmed it (as in folding large hands at times, or as schwza said, doing some crazy [censored]).

Is this basically a bot plugged into pokerstove? How does it assign you ranges? I think you could confuse the hell out of it by raising every hand if that were the case (assuming it "learned").

[BobboFitos]

ABC Poker: In a vacuum, the hand is played perfectly, meaning without mistake.

The flipside is that it's fairly easy to read his hand, which basically what my question is asking - If we generally have an idea of what villain has, but he's still playing it to perfection, can we win?

The question then begs is it is possible to force a machine that plays perfectly to really adapt in a way it cannot, and therefore exploit what is possibly "unexploitable" ?

[DJ Sensei]

if the bot is designed to "learn" then we will succeed by changing our style rapidly, and leaving him 'confused' so to speak.

beyond that its just a matter of studying his style, and finding the weak spots. there are always weak spots if its programmed by a human player.