some questions ?

pokerman777 · #1 07-14-2007, 01:58 PM

1. what does mean if the guys have percent of saw flop more then vpip for sng ?
2. What percent of my stack for pocket pair will be profitable, if we play for set value only .

Kevin8423 · #2 07-14-2007, 03:23 PM

Saw flop I would think means any flop including on the blinds or if you limp/raise etc. VPIP means anytime you voluntarily put in money, meaning not on the blinds. Unless I'm thinking about it wrong I don't see how VPIP would ever be higher than a saw flop %.

PPs are somewhat situationally dependant, though if you stick to some guidelines like 4xBB for lvl1, 3xBB for lvl2 and limping or maybe 2xBB lvl 3 you should be fine. Depending on the amount of callers and the stacks you could pay a bit more or less, but its kind of hard to just generalize everything. This doesn't include times when you should raise with them either.

pokerman777 · #3 07-14-2007, 03:43 PM

ok ,typical situation you have 1200 chips ,blinds 25-50 do you play for set value PPs ?

Jbrochu · #4 07-14-2007, 04:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ok ,typical situation you have 1200 chips ,blinds 25-50 do you play for set value PPs ?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can play this spot in a SnG for set value provided the chips you need to put in are 10% of your stack or less and villain has at least 10x that number of chips left in his stack.

This is assuming the table is still fairly full (meaning $EV hasn't trumped cEV yet) and you're relatively assured of seeing the flop.

Normally in a SnG though I prefer both me and villain have > 15x the chips required to play the hand remaining in our stacks to play for set value. This means in your example I would probably limp a small or medium pair from medium to late position (possibly raise from LP if unopened pot) but fold to a raise unless my call closed the action, and it was a small raise. (3x or less the bb).

blackize · #5 07-14-2007, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]

This is assuming the table is still fairly full (meaning $EV hasn't trumped cEV yet) and you're relatively assured of seeing the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

$EV always trumps cEV. And even at a full table ICM applies.

[ QUOTE ]

You can play this spot in a SnG for set value provided the chips you need to put in are 10% of your stack or less and villain has at least 10x that number of chips left in his stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are the implied odds you need, but you have to be very certain that villain will stack off. Since you cannot be sure of that I wouldn't play any pairs for set value at 25/50 unless you can limp in in late position after some limpers.

AMT · #6 07-14-2007, 04:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ok ,typical situation you have 1200 chips ,blinds 25-50 do you play for set value PPs ?

[/ QUOTE ]

though, as stated playing for <10% of the effective stack for set value will be profitable, because chips preserved in sngs are very valuable to you come bubble time, I usually dont advocate limping all pp's from all positions once you hit 25/50. Ill throw away the lowest pp's from EP and am more of a fan of overlimping them at this level.

blackize · #7 07-14-2007, 05:21 PM

Reminder to everyone in this thread. The 10% rule really only applies when you know someone will stack off when you hit. Since this is rarely the case, you should require better implied odds than 10:1.

suzzer99 · #8 07-14-2007, 08:41 PM

Generally I look for 15/1 effective stacsk/bet size.

DevinLake · #9 07-14-2007, 08:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reminder to everyone in this thread. The 10% rule really only applies when you know someone will stack off when you hit. Since this is rarely the case, you should require better implied odds than 10:1.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to mention this. They talk about a 5/10 rule in cash games when set mining. It means you can profitably set mine for between 5% and 10% of your stack depending on the circumstances.

The more likely someone is to stack of, the closer to 10% you can be.

However, SNGs have another factor to consider as well. You have to consider that chips you lose are worth more than those you gain. So, that would be an argument against putting in 10% of your stack with the intention of set mining. So, I'd say you shouldn't really ever be set mining for 10% of your stack in a sng. Probably more like 7% if you think he's going to stack off every time, and less if you are uncertain of how tight the villain's range is or how light he stacks of post flop.