Back to back hands...EZ fold? And somewhat lost NL25

Sherman · #1 08-17-2007, 05:44 PM

Villain (BB) is like 25/22 over only 10 hands or so. These are spots where I think I make mistakes. I thought the turn made my hand (I planned on checking behind anyway), but I should be folding to this big bet everytime right?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP ($14)
Hero ($25.70)
Button ($39.75)
SB ($15.80)
BB ($32.85)
UTG ($85.35)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.5, 2 folds, BB calls $1.25, UTG folds, MP calls $1.25.

Flop: ($4.85) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $3, BB calls $3, MP folds.

Turn: ($10.85) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $28.35 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $39.20

Once I raise on the flop I am committed to take this hand to the river right?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG ($12.50)
Hero ($21.20)
Button ($15.70)
SB ($38.70)
BB ($85.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, 2 folds, BB calls $1, UTG calls $1.

Flop: ($3.85) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $0.75, Hero raises to $3.5, BB folds, UTG calls $2.75.

Turn: ($10.85) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $3, Hero calls $3.

River: ($16.85) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $4.75 (All-In), Hero calls $4.75.

Final Pot: $26.35

suited77 · #2 08-17-2007, 06:00 PM

These both are standard.

Hand 2 is standard given stacks and bet sizing. Can't fold at any point getting those odds. Reload preflop.

Sherman · #3 08-17-2007, 06:08 PM

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Reload preflop.

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Yeah. I meant to, but these were back to back hand and forgot to reload before the cards came out. There isn't an auto-reload is there?

bighead9 · #4 08-17-2007, 06:18 PM

I think the first hand is an easy fold - there is little chance your opponent took off for a legitimate bet on the flop ($3) with nothing, looking to set up a blind all-in turn bluff - this is unlikely. Other than this type of blind move, the best hand you beat with your AK is AJ - and once again, this is a funny way to play AJ (calling such a big bet on the flop with just ace-high). However, your opponent could have AJ of clubs or some other flush draw and be using the ace for fold equity. However, the hands that are flush draws cannot be dealt enough ways in comparison to the hands that beat you (two pair, sets, flopped straight) for you to get sufficient pot odds to call such a big overbet of the pot on the turn. So when your opponent calls the $3 on the flop, I put him on at least a queen, probably AQ, or even a set. Once again, even though he might have a flush draw, these hands are few compared to the number of hands that beat you (namely AQ and a set). So once again, you won't have pot odds to call due to his overbet. Also keep in mind, that even if he has a flush draw, you still lose well over 1/3 of the time (because much of the time he will have other outs besides just the flush cards).

In the 2nd hand, on the river you have to call because you are priced in. However, I think raising big on the flop the way you did is a mistake or it at least carries with it a high degree of variance. If your opponent is betting weak with a weak hand, he will probably continue to bet weak. Since your hand is not a monster, I don't see anything wrong with just calling the small bets the whole way and seeing a cheap showdown. When you raise a bettor that has bet weak, many times you will only get called when your opponent is sandbagging a big hand. The flaw in blocker betting weak is that draws and marginal hands see cards for cheap and see cheap showdowns - they don't pay enough when they are behind and if your opponent has the best hand, he is losing significant value in the long run, especially if he pays off when you draw for cheap and get there. Accordingly, take advantage of this flaw by just calling.

suited77 · #5 08-17-2007, 07:33 PM

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However, I think raising big on the flop the way you did is a mistake or it at least carries with it a high degree of variance. If your opponent is betting weak with a weak hand, he will probably continue to bet weak.

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No offense. I didn't read everything you wrote cuz you need some line breaks in there. But we're raising that flop for value / protecting our hand and it wasn't even a pot-sized raise. I would even recommend just hitting the pot button because the board is so draw heavy.

CyberianBull · #6 08-17-2007, 07:59 PM

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However, I think raising big on the flop the way you did is a mistake or it at least carries with it a high degree of variance. If your opponent is betting weak with a weak hand, he will probably continue to bet weak.

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No offense. I didn't read everything you wrote cuz you need some line breaks in there. But we're raising that flop for value / protecting our hand and it wasn't even a pot-sized raise. I would even recommend just hitting the pot button because the board is so draw heavy.

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agree 100% and it is totally standard. The flop bet accomplishes 3 goals: 1. Protects our overpair, 2. gets us value for our overpair, 3. lets us know where we stand. His call behind our raise lets us know that we are ahead on the flop and defines our hand much better against his range.

Antinome · #7 08-17-2007, 08:16 PM

Plus, we will be raising in that spot nearly 100% anyway (with ATC) facing a weak donkbet, right? We wouldn't want to start playing backwards poker.