Pedophiles: what should we do?

[kniper]

A pedophile news story makes all of us very sad. You often see news pundits like Bill O'Reilly using these stories to work up their audience. Recently his news crew has been harassing a judge who let off a pedophile with probation and counseling (I think). O'Reilly is critical of states with "reform-minded" laws and insists that they should lock the molesters up for hard time.

This got me thinking on society's approach to pedophiles. They are a fairly unique subclass of criminals because there seems to be no punishment that presents a powerful enough deterrent and they exhibit high levels of recidivism. States have undergone many attempts at tackling this with sex offender registrations and the like. None really have seemed to work.

I have three ideas/questions:

1. I'm not going to pretend that my 20-minutes of thought on this topic has given me insight into the pedophile mind, but I assume that some of the appeal that sexual predators have is the ease in which the pedophile can subdue/convince the child to have sexual contact. Is it possible that a factor contributing to their decrepit state of mind is sexual starvation? I ask because it seems that a lot of these guys tend to be introverted losers (people I assume get little or no sex, but what do I know) or catholic priests. There is obviously something deeper here that goes into why these people do what they do, but I don't think its too brash to assume that at least some pedophiles have taken their path because of little-to-no sexual intimacy. So....

Would the legalization and social acceptance of prostitution help curb pedophilia?

2. It seems like a lot of these people should be classified with a mental disorder since they can't seem to ever get over their sexual urges. Should we treat these people more like mental patients? Instead of incarcerating them, why not put them in a mental ward for years on end for some hope at rehabilitation (assume no murder of course)? Seems like "hard time" is victim's justice while not serving society's interest in rehabilitating criminals. While I am sure that a mental ward is as unpleasant as incarceration, I am also just as skeptical as you as to its effectiveness at rehabilitation. Maybe some hybrid punishment? Thoughts?

3. How do you feel about offering the defendant chemical castration as an alternative to a lengthy prison sentence? Let's say it can only be offered in exchange for 15 years, and defendant cannot exchange it for non-pedophilia offenses that he is charged with. How do you feel about letting someone go free if they will be unlikely to molest a child again? Do you think that giving a defendant an offer of this kind offends our basic notions of common decency? Cruel and unusual?

Sorry for the long read. Complicated issue.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

What if pedophiles have a genetic predisposition towards sex with children in the same manner that some people believe that homosexuals are have a natural, inborn sexual predisposition towards members of the same sex?

[kniper]

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What if pedophiles have a genetic predisposition towards sex with children in the same manner that some people believe that homosexuals are have a natural, inborn sexual predisposition towards members of the same sex?

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ewwww. that starts to get really [censored] up.

I don't know. The question really becomes focused on whether they can be retrained and rehabilitated. If the answer is no.... then I don't know what you do. You would have a hell of an argument for putting them under some kind of state supervision for life.

[hmkpoker]

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what should we do?

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1) Relax. The media's got your worked up. Turn off your TV.

2) Stay active in your child's life, and know when and how to protect them.

[bholdr]

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What if pedophiles have a genetic predisposition towards sex with children in the same manner that some people believe that homosexuals are have a natural, inborn sexual predisposition towards members of the same sex?

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i think that a genitic predisposition towards pedophilia likely exists in the manner you describe, just like some people are born sociopathic, geniticly so different that they are incapable of recognizing the difference between right and wrong in the same way that the majority of humanity does. i also believe that there is a genitic predispositoin [GP] towards homosexuality that operates in much the same manner, perhaps not a definable 'gay gene' or 'child molestor gene', but rather an incresed genitic likelyhood of certian traits developing, if those traits are triggered or are not supressed by environmental factors in that individual's development. for that matter, there are generally accepted GPs towards alcoholism: if your dad and grandpa were drunks, you are more likely to be one too, but you may also learn to enjoy booze responsibly and defy your Y-chromosonal inclinations. also, obesiety, life spans, cancers, immune system efficacy, and probably most aspects of behavior are a result of such amalgams of genitic and environmental factors...

Our genes are like (ACK!, oops: poker content) our hole cards, maybe you start with a pair of queens, but if you could always get AKJT and make a straight.


the difference (and you know this of course) is that if somebody, for whatever reason, decides that they're homosexual...
ick. but, whatever floats yer boat, ya know, good for you.


Pedophiles, however, are qualitativly different; acting upon their urges, be they genitic or environmental, or just plain evil, has a definite negitive effect on society, and such behavior, weather it's geneticly mandated or environmentaly conditioned or, imo, a mixture of each in varying proportions, is categoricly unacceptable.
...and not really up for debate unless you're from NAMBLA.

molestors? child rapists?

i say lock 'em up. this is one of the rare instances that i aggree with Bill O'Reily... his 'jessica's law' campaign has made 25 years mandatory for child rape in most states, if i remember correctly, and i support it 100%.

i say put any child rapist in jail until they are physicly incapable of repeat offending- like, 80 years old.

[bholdr]

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Is it possible that a factor contributing to their decrepit state of mind is sexual starvation? I ask because it seems that a lot of these guys tend to be introverted losers

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that's a chicken-or-the-egg kinda question: maybe they become introverted losers or cathlic preists becaus of some fruedian sexual disfunction. are they losers because they don't get laid, or do they not get laid because they're losers? maybe they're dad didn't hug them enough. i know that i had a year-long dry spell once, and it didn't make me rape kids.


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2. It seems like a lot of these people should be classified with a mental disorder since they can't seem to ever get over their sexual urges. Should we treat these people more like mental patients? Instead of incarcerating them, why not put them in a mental ward for years on end for some hope at rehabilitation (assume no murder of course)? Seems like "hard time" is victim's justice while not serving society's interest in rehabilitating criminals. While I am sure that a mental ward is as unpleasant as incarceration, I am also just as skeptical as you as to its effectiveness at rehabilitation. Maybe some hybrid punishment? Thoughts?


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apply game theroy to this situation.

if you can turn one pedophile into a productive member of society for each, say, $1,000,000, spent, but you can rehab crackheads at $50,000 a pop, screw the pederasts (i would guess that that 20-1 ratio is accurate enough for our discussion). a moral person and their society must be pragmatic and apply their recources as efficiently as they can.

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3. How do you feel about offering the defendant chemical castration as an alternative to a lengthy prison sentence? Let's say it can only be offered in exchange for 15 years, and defendant cannot exchange it for non-pedophilia offenses that he is charged with. How do you feel about letting someone go free if they will be unlikely to molest a child again? Do you think that giving a defendant an offer of this kind offends our basic notions of common decency? Cruel and unusual?


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again, i approach this from a pragmatist's perspective. I don't know of any science that supports up the idea that castration for sex offenders, be it chemical or not, actually prevents recidivism, but i'm willing to assume that it does...

so:

A- if castration is applied only on a consensual basis and
B- the person in question is demonstratably capable of such consent, and
C- it it proven to be as or more effective than the alternative of long prison terms

then i don't think it qualifies as cruel and unusual. just like it's not cruel and unusual to to execute a murderer. though it would likely be such a grey area, like the death penalty, that it would be subject to so much litigation as to become inefficient and therefore not a pragmatic solution.

i think that castration as a solution to child rape is wishful thinking- an attempt to simplify a very complicated problem. it'd be great if it worked, but, i would rather that we focus our energy on rehabing junkies, providing training to cons that need a trade, and so forth.

I guess that my bottom line is that helping/rehabing sex offenders, particularily child molestors, is mostly a lost cause, and the most (monetary and sociatal) cost effective solution is to just lock 'em up and throw away the key.

[HeavilyArmed]

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What if pedophiles have a genetic predisposition towards sex with children in the same manner that some people believe that homosexuals are have a natural, inborn sexual predisposition towards members of the same sex?

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What's up with that? And why is it that half the sexually abused children are male but only ~5% of the pedophiles are women?

[AWoodside]

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What if pedophiles have a genetic predisposition towards sex with children in the same manner that some people believe that homosexuals are have a natural, inborn sexual predisposition towards members of the same sex?

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What's up with that? And why is it that half the sexually abused children are male but only ~5% of the pedophiles are women?

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Woman are much less likely to become bald than men too! That must not be a genetic predisposition either!

[Zygote]

from:
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/2...-and-rape.html

"One argument sometimes offered for laws against pornography, or against some kinds of pornography, is the claim that consumption of pornography leads to violence against women. A counter argument is that it has the opposite effect, that imaginary sex, including imaginary violent sex, is a substitute for the real thing.

I recently attended a talk by an academic who had found an ingenious way of using a natural experiment to find out which was true. Access to the internet makes pornography more readily available—not only cheaper and easier to find, but more private and so less likely to lead to embarassment and other negative social consequences. Internet access increased at different rates in different states. Data on rape rates by state is available. So he looked to see whether, controlling for other variables, increased access to the net correlated with an increase or decrease in rape. It correlated with a decrease—about a ten percent drop in rape for a ten percentage point increase in internet access, with the exact numbers varying according to just how he did the analysis. There was no similar relation for murder, which suggests that the result is not simply picking up the effect of some third variable that correlates with both internet access and violent crime.

As further evidence, the author repeated the analysis, separating out the data according to the age of the perpetrator. His conjecture was that the men most benefitted by the availability of internet porn would be young adult men living with their parents, since they would find it difficult to consume other forms of pornography without risking discovery. The results supported the argument; the reduction in rape was concentrated in the 15-19 age group.
"

[bholdr]

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What's up with that? And why is it that half the sexually abused children are male but only ~5% of the pedophiles are women?


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I think that %95 to %5 is way off the mark, thogh i concede that the vast majority of Mr. Molestos are men.

my gut reaction would be that men are more naturally inclined to act on a predisposition towards sexual deviance, due to both physiological factors (aggression enabled by terstostorone and other hormones, men are bigger and stronger and thus more capable of such actions) and cultural factors (males generally occupy the sexually dominant position in society, or have better access to the means that enables them to act on their inclanation to molest- women are less physicly capable and are generally still socialized to exoress sexuality in a submisive or repressed context).

additionally, because of the recognition that most sex criminals are men, i'm confidant that men are brought to justice for those crimes at a higher rate than women comitting simaler crimes. maybe the nature of the crimes comitted makes male sex criminals qualitativly different, much worse, than females? i don't know.

maybe, and i'm speculating here, male sex crimes are just more memorable/noteworthy/documented than the females equlivant...

men do have penises, after all... a woman can't exactly just rape a kid with their standard equiptment- i wonder how much that has to do with it? g'dammit, that sounds sick.