$2 -set of 4's vs bad player

checkmate36 · #1 11-03-2006, 09:50 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($2.56)
UTG+1 ($3)
MP1 ($0.47)
Hero ($1.98)
MP3 ($5.59)
CO ($5.31)
Button ($3.15)
SB ($5.43)
BB ($4.94)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.02.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.02, MP3 calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.12) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.12, MP3 calls $0.12, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Should I be overbetting here?

Turn: ($0.36) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $0.38, MP3 calls $0.38.

I bet a tiny bit more than the pot this time. Go big or go home???

River: ($1.12) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $0.2, MP3 raises to $2.62, Hero calls $1.26 (All-In).

This player goes to the showdown with 2nd best hands often. Im pretty sure he has the flush but getting better than 2:1 from the pot I felt I had to call hoping to see QT or 8T.

Thanks for any ideas on this one.

Final Pot: $5.20

xwillience · #2 11-04-2006, 12:24 AM

PreFlop: i usually just smooth call preflop. if i was in a later position raising would be more appropriate, but not in this position with a bunch of limpers in already.

Flop: fine

Turn: fine.

River: ugggg. okay, here you are trying to mix a couple different ideas all together and get it completely wrong. Your trying to value bet, make a block bet, and induce a raise, AND then you call thinking your ahead.

The idea here is to make a choice and stick with it. If your going to make a bet... its a blocking bet here, bet about 1/2 the pot and fold to a raise. OR, c/c to induce a bluff and to minimize your losses if he has the flush. call anything less than a full PSB back to you.

As played, I think the river is a pretty obvious fold. Villain played this just like a FD. make a note that he wil call anything anything on a draw, so bet more (even more than the pot is OK) for value on earlier streets and c/c when big draws catch.

gimmetheloot · #3 11-04-2006, 04:09 AM

OP: what was your river bet supposed to do?

rest looks fine btw. ALso, I would rather overbet flop than turn.

checkmate36 · #4 11-04-2006, 07:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
OP: what was your river bet supposed to do?

rest looks fine btw. ALso, I would rather overbet flop than turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was supposed to be a mix of a bunch of things that I don't understand that can cost me more loot. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thanks for pointing out the correct way to handle the river next time Im in this spot. Very helpfull.

tehDiceman · #5 11-04-2006, 08:51 AM

i probably would have folded the river. as you, i wouldnt have placed him on the flush either but it is apparent that he is willing to risk a big chunk of his stack.

i did the same thing recently with a villian. he was making huge bets on the river with nothing hands, winning because of the other donks at the table. i had a set of Q or K or something and was betting decent size, he pushed all in on the river flush maker and i placed him on two overpair. he had the flush. total donkey too.

robinmbuk · #6 11-04-2006, 09:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PreFlop: i usually just smooth call preflop. if i was in a later position raising would be more appropriate, but not in this position with a bunch of limpers in already.

Flop: fine

Turn: fine.

River: ugggg. okay, here you are trying to mix a couple different ideas all together and get it completely wrong. Your trying to value bet, make a block bet, and induce a raise, AND then you call thinking your ahead.

The idea here is to make a choice and stick with it. If your going to make a bet... its a blocking bet here, bet about 1/2 the pot and fold to a raise. OR, c/c to induce a bluff and to minimize your losses if he has the flush. call anything less than a full PSB back to you.

As played, I think the river is a pretty obvious fold. Villain played this just like a FD. make a note that he wil call anything anything on a draw, so bet more (even more than the pot is OK) for value on earlier streets and c/c when big draws catch.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep.

eigenvalue · #7 11-04-2006, 09:57 AM

I like to play those hands a different way. Here it is:

Against these kind of players, I like to check the turn and independent on the river card I would check the river, too. The reason for this is, I like to induce bluffs with a made set. This is my most favorite way in playing these kind of hands. The major reason:

(1) If I check the turn, depending on my reads on this player I get some information from him. If he checks too, it may be mor likely that he is on a flush draw. If he bets, he has some kind of a pair. So checking can give me some information about his hand.

(2) Now, if the flush hits, I have some idea whether he was on a draw or not. I check the river and depending on his turn action and his bet on the river, there may be some situations where I loose less money than You as You played that hand, because I have more information about his hand.

(3) If the flush doesn't hit, I still earn lots of money the way I play this hands. Checking the river after a check on the turn will induce a bluff lots of the time or will convince villian that he is ahead with his TPTK or something like that. If he bets, I reraise all-in or at least reraise a decent amount. Now, he has a very tough dicision to make. Yesterday, I took someones whole stack that way. He thought his top pair, middle kicker was very good given the betting sequence!

Supwithbates · #8 11-04-2006, 10:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like to play those hands a different way. Here it is:

Against these kind of players, I like to check the turn and independent on the river card I would check the river, too. The reason for this is, I like to induce bluffs with a made set. This is my most favorite way in playing these kind of hands. The major reason:

(1) If I check the turn, depending on my reads on this player I get some information from him. If he checks too, it may be mor likely that he is on a flush draw. If he bets, he has some kind of a pair. So checking can give me some information about his hand.

(2) Now, if the flush hits, I have some idea whether he was on a draw or not. I check the river and depending on his turn action and his bet on the river, there may be some situations where I loose less money than You as You played that hand, because I have more information about his hand.

(3) If the flush doesn't hit, I still earn lots of money the way I play this hands. Checking the river after a check on the turn will induce a bluff lots of the time or will convince villian that he is ahead with his TPTK or something like that. If he bets, I reraise all-in or at least reraise a decent amount. Now, he has a very tough dicision to make. Yesterday, I took someones whole stack that way. He thought his top pair, middle kicker was very good given the betting sequence!

[/ QUOTE ]
interesting, but I wouldn't try it outside of uNL, it won't work against thinking players that 1) are likely to semibluff,and 2) can get away from weak hands, especially vs. tricky opponents.