LO8 - 6 handed - not the nuts but...

[TMTTR]

Loose table, six handed, button is overagressive (raises on his button nearly 50% of the time if pot not yet raised), utg is not so good.

Hero is BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG calls, fold, fold, Button raises, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop (6+SB): 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks, UTG checks, Button bets, hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn (4.5BB): J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero checks, UTG bets, button calls, hero raises, UTG 3-bets, button calls, hero ___

Comments on all streets?

[WMB]

played o.k.. i might c-raise the flop here but its close

i'd call the turn, reevaluate on the river.

[Zima421]

I would most likely c/r the flop..good to get a lot of value in there with a multi way hand. Once the guy utg just check calls the flop, you probably put him on some sort of "wrap" low draw or a wrap straight or a low set on the high end (obv not both). After he 3 bets the turn, with no low card hitting, he is most likely betting q10. I would say you call turn and as WMB said reevaluate the river. Low is most likely good...

[Buzz]

TMTTR - Given your description of your opponents, it's very hard to read them. ("Over-aggressive" and "not-so-good" players are difficult to read).

I probably would have directly bet the flop and then matters might be different.

Check-raising the flop would have been my second choice. Check-calling once in a while to mix up your play is not terrible (but check-calling as a matter of routine in situations like this seems too passive to me).

At any rate at the point where UTG three bets, things look very scary. UTG is more or less representing the nut (QTXY) straight. And Button has more or less represented the nut low (A2XY). But either of these guys could have the same high or low as you, or worse, or the same in one direction.

And now you're kind of stuck. If you just call, you're in line to get jammed (whipsawed) on the river.<ul type="square">You check, UTG checks, Button bets, you call, UTG limp-re-raises, Button makes it four bets. Ugly.[/list]But that might not happen, or it might happen even if you make it four bets. (It's less likely to happen if you cap here on the third betting round).

I would call it down from here, hoping for the best. I wonder if you could have avoided this by betting the flop. (Maybe UTG would have folded). Or maybe nothing would have worked here. Or maybe you scooped. (The results are not yet posted, but don't matter much anyhow in terms of how best to play this hand over the long term against unknown opponents).

Buzz

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
(The results are not yet posted, but don't matter much anyhow in terms of how best to play this hand over the long term against unknown opponents).

[/ QUOTE ]

That is why I left the results out. I don't think it matters much to the results.

I think I gave a little more description, at least with respect to the button.

If I raised the flop and get called by both, I would certainly have bet out the trun when I made the second-nut straight. I would now assume that UTG would have raised and button would have called... I guess it would save me 1/2 BB if I was behind (which is likely the case)...

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
If I raised the flop and get called by both, I would certainly have bet out the trun when I made the second-nut straight. I would now assume that UTG would have raised and button would have called... I guess it would save me 1/2 BB if I was behind (which is likely the case)...

[/ QUOTE ]TMTTR - If you bet the flop, UTG if holding QTXY might have folded after a 983-offsuit flop. In that case, not betting the flop cost you the whole high half of the pot!

If you bet the flop, and then bet the turn, UTG might raise with the nut straight and possibly knock out Button with the same low as you. In that case, not betting the flop caused you to get quartered for low.

But there is more to it than that. By not betting this flop, the next time you flop the nut low draw and bet it after a flop similar to this one, you will seem more likely to be betting the nut low draw than if you bet this flop to somewhat disguise that possible future move. In other words, you're harder to read in the future if you bet this flop.

Saving the half of a big bet (although those saves do add up) seems trivial in the grand scheme of things.

Buzz