KK from the BB

[James.]

i've been running pretty horribly and most of the table is aware of this. as of late, however, i'm pretty much back to even for the session.

me-$470
LAG-$750

2/5 live

LAGgy asian guy(i've seen him raise A4o UTG, etc.) who's up a couple racks limps in EP, two more unknown limpers to me in the BB and i make it $40 straight with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. LAG calls, limpers call.

Flop($162ish): A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

i bet $120, asian raises it to $250 straight, limpers fold, i think for a second and shove.

anything to discuss? how should i have played it?

[Squareview]

spew. why did you shove? nothing calls but an ace there. mabye KQ

[Squareview]

if you think your ahead call and push non q j 10 turn. its a horrible line but you sacrafice so much equity with your shove flop line if your read is right.......

[James.]

would you feel the same if i told you that there was a very reasonable chance he thinks i might be tilting and therefore this guy could instacall if he holds a queen, a gutshot/overcard combo or possibly a decent(55+) pp.

does that change anything? don't get me wrong, i want you guys to set me straight.

[Squareview]

it changes a litttle but is he the type of player that will fire another large bet on any turn? i think his read on you is gonna be better than your read on him just given the fact that we will only be calling the r/r to 250......plus if a bad turn like J falls your line turns into a bluff if thats when you were gonna get it in. i know its harder to fold there with 2 As on flop than 1 but that doesnt shrink his range.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
it changes a litttle but is he the type of player that will fire another large bet on any turn? i think his read on you is gonna be better than your read on him just given the fact that we will only be calling the r/r to 250......plus if a bad turn like J falls your line turns into a bluff if thats when you were gonna get it in. i know its harder to fold there with 2 As on flop than 1 but that doesnt shrink his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't think red lights won't start going off when i only call in this spot? when i shove it's only 180.00 more to him in a 660ish pot. if i call, i'm afraid he's shutting down UI unless he has an ace.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
if you think your ahead call and push non q j 10 turn. its a horrible line but you sacrafice so much equity with your shove flop line if your read is right.......

[/ QUOTE ]

I get why a Q is a bad turn, but why is a J or T so bad? The only hands those are gunna help are the gutshots that we hold 2 stopper cards to

[Matt Flynn]

James.

your line makes sense if you think he will fold weak aces there. he does not sound like the type to fold weak aces there. so, as described i would lead the flop for like $50 or check it. once raised take your time and call. point is to induce big bluffs and maybe get him to slow down if he has an ace. then check turn and river. that way you induce him to change his range in your favor: he adds a ton of bluff hands, is more likely to semibluff, and may even bet a Q not realizing you have KK.

of course you have to lay the hand down often, but here against a bluffy opponent (if that's what he is) your global strategy should profit.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
James.

your line makes sense if you think he will fold weak aces there. he does not sound like the type to fold weak aces there. so, as described i would lead the flop for like $50 or check it. once raised take your time and call. point is to induce big bluffs and maybe get him to slow down if he has an ace. then check turn and river. that way you induce him to change his range in your favor: he adds a ton of bluff hands, is more likely to semibluff, and may even bet a Q not realizing you have KK.

of course you have to lay the hand down often, but here against a bluffy opponent (if that's what he is) your global strategy should profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Matt,

thanks for taking the time to respond. your book is awesome. i just received it the other day and have only began to scratch the surface, but it is very readable and the concepts seem to be well-explained.

so you suggest playing the hand in such a way that will maximize the bluff equity inherent in my opponent's range? if it was HU that's certainly the way i would have approached it given the board.

i don't know if this is right or wrong but the two limpers in the hand changed things a bit and caused my deviation from that strategy. my flop bet was really intended to win it right away since the pot was pretty big at that point. it's also not out of the realm of reason that one of the limpers might be capable of folding a weak ace on occasion, though i wouldn't expect it a majority of the time.

i guess i like the $50 bet more than the flop check given the multiway situation. that would likely induce a raise from the LAG just as my original bet did, but with the benefit of being from a wider range of bluff/semibluff/valuebluff hands as well as facing the limpers with a bet and raise which would induce folds and get the pot HU. after that i could take the more passive line to showdown.

[Matt Flynn]

James.

i clustered the hand. big error on my part. forgot there were three others in the pot with you.

i'd give up without putting a penny in on the flop. players' ranges are skewed towards aces in those games where they call raises with a wide range. til they learn better. wouldn't surprise me at all to see Axs (which is a ridiculous preflop call), and he ain't folding, at least not the loose low-stakes live and microstakes online players i'm thinking of.

sorry about that -

matt